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Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V3 #444

Please excuse this huge post, but I just realized I just missed the
deadline for the PM digest and that the above announcement won't get out in
time unless I do SOMETHING, so I am reposting this digest so as to cause
the above to appear in a timely fashion.   Please excuse any inconvenience.

At 02:58 PM 8/12/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Aquatic Plants Digest    Wednesday, August 12 1998    Volume 03 : Number 444
>In this issue:
>	oxygen, fish, plants, light and CO2
>	Optimum
>	Re: Vallisneria problems
>	RE:  personal goals
>	Personal Goals
>	Re: Personal Goals
>	Re: Optimum
>	Re: Optimum
>	Re:personal goals
>	Re: Personal Goal
>	Re: Thining Out Plants
>	Re: Re: Pumice
>	Re: several beginner's questions
>	IceCap 660 for sale
>	Personal Goals
>	Heating cables
>	reasons to aquarize
>	Re: Goals (Humorous ?)
>	Re: Dead SAEs
>	Re: Optimum
>	re: Karen's question
>	Re: What plants are they?
>See the end of the digest for information on unsubscribing from the
>Aquatic Plants mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:00:11 -0700
>From: Steve Pushak <teban at powersonic_bc.ca>
>Subject: oxygen, fish, plants, light and CO2
>This talk about oxygen levels and SAE deaths has started a train of
>If you get unexplained fish deaths or diseases related to stress or
>plants which turn brown and die, the cause may be low levels of oxygen.
>One way to approach this problem is to get an oxygen test kit which are
>widely available in the more upscale fish stores. George had another
>high tech gadget, I think, which essentially measured oxygen content via
>the redox potential. For anyone interested in a soil/peat substrate it
>would be a good plan to plot oxygen levels during the first few weeks to
>gain some valuable data.
>Another way to approach this problem (without test kit) is to take a
>look at all the factors which affect the oxygen level in the water and
>how to modify them. If you are injecting CO2 and you are minimizing
>surface disturbance to conserve it you are also reducing the interchange
>of oxygen in the air with the water. If you aren't using CO2, then you
>want to have the water circulating as much as you can to let the plants
>get at the CO2 available in the water. Even if you are adding CO2, its a
>good plan to get the water circulating (I like powerheads for this)
>because this maximizes CO2 availability to the plants and it does
>improve the gas exchange rates at the water surface in case you don't
>have enough photosynthesis happening to keep the water oxygenated.
>When things are working well, at the end of the day, if there aren't too
>many fish, (or other consumers of oxygen like bacteria rotting things),
>you will often see the oxygen pearling. Sometimes you can observe that
>at the _end_ of the day, it looks like your CO2 bubbles aren't
>dissolving as much as they swirl out into the tank from your pump. This
>isn't actually because the CO2 isn't dissolving; just the opposite!! It
>is dissolving however oxygen is diffusing almost as fast INTO the
>bubbles (as mentioned by Roger Miller in the past).
>No oxygen pearling, stress problems with fish or plants? Ok, maybe you
>can reduce the oxygen demand. That could be by removing fish, snails,
>detritus, wood, even peat. Of course you can't always remove organic
>matter from a substrate very easily but you can sure keep the fish load
>low during the break in period and you can avoid using soil that is high
>in organic material. Soil that is good for your garden, may be VERY BAD
>for your aquarium. In fact, you can get iron toxicity which is something
>which can turn your plants brown and kill them such as the incident that
>Matt MacGregor described in 7 Aug 98 APD # 434. Iron toxicity happens in
>rice fields when they grow it on a newly submerged soil. That's because
>this fresh soil contains enough organic material that the bacteria use
>up most of the available oxygen and nitrates and the soil goes "sour".
>Aquatic plants growing in swamps need to produce a LOT of oxygen to
>protect themselves from high levels of reduced iron and ammonia and
>other reduced compounds which potentially can harm their roots. For most
>kinds of aquatic plants, this is no problem so long as they have an
>adequate supply of 1) light, 2) CO2 and 3) the rest of the nutrients.
>Aquatic plants are able to carry oxygen into their roots through special
>air channels in the stems and roots called aerenchyma. Plants with thick
>roots seem to be bested adapted for this. Some of the best include:
>Bacopa, Myriophylum, Alternanthera, Elodea, Echinodorus and Crypts. In
>my experience, the fast growers like Hygrophila and Rotala seemed to be
>at a disadvantage especially after being trimmed or freshly replanted
>however they are the second wave of colonizers in a new tank.
>Why do the high peat substrates not suffer from iron toxicity? My guess
>is that a lot of these substrates may not have a large amount of
>available iron (such as if you added micronized iron) or nitrates which
>might be reduced to ammonia or other fertile substances which can be
>reduced to toxic forms. The other scenario could be that the aquarist
>may be using plenty of "break in" plants and providing good conditions
>(light, CO2 etc.) which are producing lots of oxygen and keeping things
>in balance.
>I think we really don't need very much peat or organic matter to keep
>iron available in a substrate. It would be nice if we could add the peat
>at a later stage in the evolution of the bio-system when the plant roots
>were really well developed and pumping too much oxygen into the
>substrate and depriving themselves of a source of iron. Or maybe the
>smart thing to do at that stage is to just to switch over to chelated
>iron supplements.
>Morale: the safest approach with a soil substrate is to use a mineral
>soil (very low on organic matter). This means skipping the peat or
>perhaps only using a small amount such as a cup or two for average sized
>tank. I believe I will adjust my recommendations about peat. I notice
>that some the commercial aquarium and pond soils contain relatively low
>amounts of peat however they do use it.
>For more experienced aquatic gardeners, using the 3-5 watt/gal lighting
>and using compressed CO2, you can probably push the organic load up
>without much risk.
>Steve Pushak                              Vancouver, BC, CANADA 
>Visit "Steve's Aquatic Page"      http://home.infinet.net/teban/
> for LOTS of pics, tips and links for aquatic gardening!!!
>Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 02:20:27 -0700
>From: ternay at dimensional_com (Andy Ternay)
>Subject: Optimum
>1.  +++visually impressive
>2. must be educational--I regard this hobby as a long term, low key science
>education--best of all is there is no final exam!
>3. challenging without being the source of insoluble frustrations
>4. engaging to friends and family--stimulate their curiosity and interest
>5. fun
>*Of course you can trust the government; just ask any Native American!*
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:16:06 -0700
>From: Steve Pushak <teban at powersonic_bc.ca>
>Subject: Re: Vallisneria problems
>Ron Mills <ronmills at webtv_net> wrote:
>> I have a 20 high with vallisneria, various swords, and crypts species.
>> The val has basically stopped growing and has started to shed its
>> leaves. The ech tennelus has transparent leaves, and the other sword
>> plant has little or no growth.  The crypts have have yellowish green
>> leaves but continues to put out healthy growth. My tank conditions are
>> ph 7.6, hard water, full spectrum lighting, laterite in gravel,
>> occasional liquid fertilizer. It would seem some trace element/mineral
>> is lacking, because just a few months ago I was pulling out handfuls of
>> excessive growth of the val. Any help would be appreciated.
>This is only a guess, but I suspect a shortage of nitrogen. You could
>get a nitrate test kit or try adding a 1/4 tsp. of K2NO3 to see if the
>plants green up. I think you should think about the major nutrients
>before the micro-nutrients. Do you have any small holes in the older
>leaves of the Echinodorus species? I'm wondering if leaf holes might be
>also related to N deficiency and looking for corroboration.
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 06:21:17 -0400
>From: Kelly <apples at midohio_net>
>Subject: RE:  personal goals
>Karen wrote:
>  I'd like to hear
>from some of you hundreds of "lurkers" on this list.  What is important
>_you_ in your planted tank hobby? 
>In order of preference:  my planted tank is 120g and has been set up
>for  4 months.
>- ----a stunning display that attracts guests in my home to it--hopefully
>to ooh and ahh
>- ----a cool place for fish to hang out in
>- ----ease of care/requirements for the plants to thrive and the fish to
>That's about it :)  I enjoy my tank and actually still don't mind
>cleaning and taking care of it, but its main focus was as a centerpiece
>in a new home--and still is.
>- -- 
>mailto:apples at midohio_net
>ICQ # 9473419
>My goal in life...is to be the kind of person
>                my dog thinks I am!
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:03:14 -0400
>From: Troy Luttrell <Rathwine at mediaone_net>
>Subject: Personal Goals
>Ok, here are my goals with my planted tank.
>1. Happy fish, that are active, and happy to see me each day.
>2. Beautiful plants that are soothing to look at (one of my favorite past 
>times, watching fish and plants)
>3. Learning everything I can about the interactions of the different 
>chemicals that make the above happen.
>4. Not too much maintenance, or money.  (Don't have enough money to buy 
>everything name brand.
>I think it is pretty interesting that when I am doing things right in the 
>tank, the fish are active and even breed.  This to me is a sign of a pretty 
>healthy tank.  I can not stand losing any of my fish, and each day I spend 
>an hour or so looking at each one and trying to make sure they are ok.  On 
>the plant side, the hardest part was finding what would grow in my tanks. 
> I have one that is a gravel substrate that we fertilize with jobes sticks, 
>k2so4, flourish iron, and sometimes flourish.  This tank runs 82-86 f, 
>(27-30 c), 7.2ph, and we have found the only plants that like growing in 
>this setup are ones with a rhizome of some sort, or a bulb.  Onion bulbs do 
>great, swords do pretty good, apons of all kinds do good, if they can take 
>the heat.
>Now in the 55 gal tank, it is a different story.  I have a peat substrate, 
>with sand on top, and most anything grows great there.  I do not add any 
>fertilizer, and my ph stays about 6.8.  The plants there grow great, and 
>fast.  I have Asian lilies, apons, swords, cabomba, and val all doing 
>great.  Most anything I put in that tank grows, including the fish.
>If anyone gets to this far down in this post, I do have a question to ask. 
> In the big tank mentioned earlier, 80 gallon, 7.2ph, 10ppm nitrates, .5 
>phosphates, 5deg kh, 8 deg gh, 86 deg f, filtered with a wet dry filter, 
>240 watts of light, 2 5000k daylight bulbs (GE), 2 cool white, 4 20 watt 
>grow lux bulbs, fertilize with s2so4, jobes, flourish iron, and every 3 
>days flourish.  That was a run on sentence if I ever saw one.  Oh well. 
> This tank is not growing like it used to.  One of our apons dropped its 
>leaves and now is growing short leaves.  The old ones were 12" long each. 
> Now they are 4" long.  Some of the other plants are starting to curl on 
>the edge of the leaves, and  the tips may be bent back on the leaf.  Any 
>ideas?  I know I am missing something, but not sure what.  Any help would 
>be appreciated.
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:07:50 EDT
>From: Aquatect2 at aol_com
>Subject: Re: Personal Goals
>This is an interesting question.  I think if I listed my reasons, they would
>all be about the same as what has already been posted.  But what I think is
>underlying these goals is some kind of inherent desire to create an orderly
>universe amidst our chaotic lives.  Order-making is something humans seem to
>pursue on many levels and an aquarium is yet another expression of this
>desire.  That's why algae invasions cause so much distress, it represents
>unwanted chaos in the little orderly world.   
>In Austin where it's so hot, going to hell would be a relief!
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:29:34 +0800
>From: Loh Kwek Leong <timebomb at pacific_net.sg>
>Subject: Re: Optimum
>Hi, Karen Randall and all,
>I'm from Singapore and I like to share what I feel are my personal goals
>in this planted tank hobby.  
>1.  A beautiful tank, something like one of those in Amano's Nature
>Aquarium World books.  Mine is still a long way off (sigh) but I'm
>2.  To keep my fish healthy.  I believe although we talk about plants
>most of the time, it's still the fish that matters.  I find myself
>looking at my fish more than the plants.  It's good to have plants,
>they are great to look at but trouble is, they don't swim.
>3.  Maintenance wise, I don't mind spending about half an hour each
>day fiddling with my tanks.  After all, isn't that what's its all about.
>I do derive a certain pleasure doing the maintenance work, be it
>the plants or changing the water.  It takes my mind off the unpleasant
>things happening around here.  (We're having an economic crisis, you
>4.  Cost wise, I accept the fact that the hobby will cost me money.
>I'm really not much of a DIY person so I buy all my stuff from the fish
>shops.  Well, it's either spending my money at the fish shops or
>else.  I doubt I will be any richer if I had not taken up this hobby.
>5.  Knowledge wise, I'm not much into understanding the reasons why 
>certain things work and others don't.  I find it too much of a hassle
>learning about the chemistry of the water and all that stuff.  Frankly,
>half the time, I can't follow the discussions here in this mailing list.
>It's a bit too cheem (Chinese for deep) for me.  I have several test
>but I hardly use them.  Fortunately for me, the water from our taps do
>need much conditioning.  I'm an idiot, really.  All I do is change water
>and put in fertiliser.
>Loh K L
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:27:40 -0400
>From: Hostler Richard <rhostler at pcconnection_com>
>Subject: Re: Optimum
>Here's my take on the optimum tank:
>1. It must provide me with new questions or ideas which I can use to
>expand my knowledge regarding the aquarium. I will be greatly
>disappointed if I even find myself sitting in front of my aquarium and
>not wondering how or why some aspect of the tank is the way it is.
>2. It must be balanced. I am not saying that I try to run a "natural"
>tank. I use external filters and CO2 reactors and the like but I want
>the inside of the tank to be completely balanced. I want the fish to use
>the plants and the plants to use the fish. I don't want to be surprised
>by test results and I want all changes in conditions to be minor. I
>enjoy working with all the external machinery, but prefer not to do
>anything more in the aquarium than is absolutely necessary.
>3. Life. Everything in the tank must be alive and vigorous. All plants
>must show visible growth (they need not grow inches a week, just a new
>leaf every now and then or a flower or floater). All the fish must be
>active and reproducing. I have only tried to raise fry a couple times,
>but I enjoy seeing eggs or fry in my aquarium even if they are gone the
>next day. Such is life. My filter must be alive, in fact, I even add
>some snails to the filter to help the process.
>4. Finally it must be a microcosm of the macrocosm. If my life is going
>well, my tank seems to thrive. If my life is not going so well I seem to
>find problems in the tank. I may be bringing this to a static aquarium,
>but at least it can reflect my mood back to me and provide me with a way
>to escape the doldrums.
>As far as work involved, that doesn't matter. Most of the time it is
>extremely low, but there are days when it takes hours to fix one little
>problem. Either way it's worth it.
>Date: 12 Aug 98 10:17:15 EDT
>From: Susan.C.Jorgensen at Dartmouth_EDU (Susan C. Jorgensen)
>Subject: Re:personal goals
>in order of importance:
>a) It's healthy and growing
>b) It looks good
>c) It provides a good home to whatever fish live there
>I'll take advantage of this non-lurking moment to thank you for all the
>and sensible information you share with the "silent majority" out (t)here.
>may be quiet, but we're paying attention!      
>Susan Jorgensen
>Sherman Art Library
>Dartmouth College
>- --- You wrote:
> I'd like to hear
>from some of you hundreds of "lurkers" on this list.  What is important to
>_you_ in your planted tank hobby?  Remember, there are no right or wrong
>answers here.  
>- --- end of quote ---
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:48:45 -0400
>From: "Louis Lin" <lhclin at aw_sgi.com>
>Subject: Re: Personal Goal
>I guess I am a little different than many people
>and do not put visual appeal on the top of my list.
>My plant tank is more like a toy to me than a
>piece of decoration.  So here is what's important
>to me:
>1. Fun to work on.
>2. Fun to watch.
>3. Visually appealing (yes, that is different from fun to watch).
>4. As an educational tool.  To learn things that I would
>   not learn otherwise.
>If I take out the spouse factor, I can even take out number 3 :).
>Louis Lin
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:04:47 +0200
>From: Luca Specchio <luckyluca at mclink_it>
>Subject: Re: Thining Out Plants
>>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:22 +0800
>>From: Kenny Song <kensong at pc_jaring.my>
>>Subject: Thining Out Plants
>>As mentioned in a previous post, I had abundant growth of Echinodorus
>>tenellus. Some older leaves turn pale and transparent but because the
>>growth was so much, it's hard to get at them. Do I just leave them to 
>Did you check your potassium level into the water?
>Luca Specchio
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:00:37 +0200
>From: Luca Specchio <luckyluca at mclink_it>
>Subject: Re: Re: Pumice
>>Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:37:47 EDT
>>From: IDMiamiBob at aol_com
>>Subject: Re: Pumice
>>> >garden variety sphagnum, and get the same substrate for less money
>(call it
>>>  >Poor Man's Amano Substrate- or PMAS)
>Eheheh !! :-)))
>>If it is low in organics, it won't be useful.  The acidity ( I keep 
>Sorry I didn't explain correctly myself here. What I meant is that, as peat
>comes from _partially_ decomposed plant material, you should go for a type
>of peat that less labile to decay as possible.
>>>  But you should add a NPK fertilizer too (possibly as low as you can in
>>That goes without saying, as part of any fertilizer regime.
>I meant into the substrate, indeed! Use it in small doses. Which type of
>NPK fertilizer do you want to use in the substrate?
>>>  The small size I used is 5-8mm diameter in size.
>>That's like 1/8 inch.  Are you sure that's Amano's idea of "small"?  
>Wrong conversion!! 5mm is 1/5 inch and 8mm is more than 1/3 inch.
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:17:24 -0400
>From: "Louis Lin" <lhclin at aw_sgi.com>
>Subject: Re: several beginner's questions
>Tsuh Yang wrote:
>> 1) when you buy potted plants that come in rockwool, is it best to unpot
>> them or leave them in that unsightly material?
>Take out as much rockwool as you can.
>> 2) is it advisable to pot up plants in soil or peat in small clay pots
>> and bury it in the substrate, in order to give them something to feed on?
>> if not, what's a good fertilizer (tablet or liquid) that folks would
>> recommend?
>> 3) re: lights, did i understand correctly that some folks use 3 bulbs
>> over a 55-gallon tank?  do they make 3-bulb fixtures?
>There is no simple answer to 2 and 3.  People have been keeping aquatic
>plants in almost any setting you can imagine.  Go through the APD
>archieve and you will find tons of info on fertilizer and lighting issues.
>As for the light fixture.  I have never seen a 3-bulb fixture either.  To
>get the amount of light you want, you can 1) get 2 fixtures, 2) make your
>own fixture, or 3) get a specialize lighting fixture (VHO or power compact)
>that produces the amount of light you want.
>> 4) i'm finally thinking of investing in test kits.  in addition to the
>> basic (pH, nitrite, nitrate, hardness), what other tests should i
>> consider?
>pH and nitrate kits are quite essential.  You probably won't use a nitrite
>kit after you cycle the tank except in emergency.  General hardness is nice
>to have to test your tap water from time to time, but you probably won't
>use it regularly.  Alkalinity (sometimes sold as carbonate hardness) kit
>is quite essential as it affects pH level and stability.  Phosphate and
>iron kits are nice to have.
>As time goes on, you will learn to observe the fish and the plants as
>an indicator to your water quality.  I no longer test regularly, and test
>pH, nitrate and alkalinity only when I see something irregular happens in my
>Louis Lin
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 07:34:34 PDT
>From: "Claxton, Andrew" <Andrew.Claxton at CAN_xerox.com>
>Subject: IceCap 660 for sale
>My original message was
>I have an IceCap 660 as well as some Lamotte test kits for sale (nitrate,
>C02, Iron, phosphate).  The ballast has only been used for about 4 months.
>I am in the Torono area.  If interested please feel free to contact me at
>Andrew.Claxton at can_xerox.com or call me at (416) 733-6333.
>My fingers didn't seem to be working very well.  I am in  the Toronto Canada
>area.  If anyone is interested and in this area feel free to get in touch.
>The Lamotte test kits are basically new and I would only be looking for
>about 75% of original cost.
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:14:13 EDT
>From: Ellistonk at aol_com
>Subject: Personal Goals
>In a message dated 8/12/98 3:53:38 AM, you wrote:
><<OK, we've had responses from a bunch of our list regulars (although not
>everyone has reported in yet<g>) We've had some interesting responses, but
>I think I could guess the views of most of our regulars.  I'd like to hear
>from some of you hundreds of "lurkers" on this list.  What is important to
>_you_ in your planted tank hobby?>>
>1. The availability of relatively inexpensive ready made sets of equipment &
>supplies that can help "make it happen".
>I wanted since childhood to grow healthy aquatic plants. It wasn't until
>'91 that I discovered "The Optimum Aquarium", and sometime after that, this
>list. Then it took me a couple years to save the money, track down all the
>equipment, and a lot of trial and error to make it all work right
together. In
>a way it was fun, challenging and rewarding, but I'd rather have been able to
>concentrate more on the artistic expression and aesthetics of the tank than
>fighting algae battles and driving all over the countryside trying to
>find/jury rig equipment. People, especially young people have to scrimp and
>save to buy cars and maybe that first house. They shouldn't have to do
that to
>have a nice planted aquarium. 99% of the people that see my tank and
>immediately want one of their own, just as immediately scrap the idea upon
>hearing what a ready made system costs or what's involved "doing it on the
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:23:39 -0400
>From: "Ashcraft, Bob" <BAshcraft at medrad_com>
>Subject: Heating cables
>If anyone out there is in the process of building DIY substrate heating
>cables, I have created an Excel database to calculate the wire gauge and
>transformer size.  All you need to do is enter the length of wire you intend
>to use and then go through the list and pick the desired wattage to find the
>wire and  transformer size.
>E-mail me personally and I will send it to you.
>Bob Ashcraft
>e-mail  bashcraft at medrad_com
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:06:58 -0700
>From: Roxanne Bittman <RBITTMAN at hq_dfg.ca.gov>
>Subject: reasons to aquarize
>My top goals for planted tanks:
>1. Creativity outlet - so important for working people! 
>This is number one for sure.
>2.  Beautiful plants, arranged to create a sense of
>depth and diversity that might remind one of nature. 
>The plants should be robust, grow well, and show no
>signs of deficiencies.  I'm always striving to make
>something as pretty as T. Amano's tanks.
>3.  Happy animals that breed, although I don't raise fry.
> Watching their behavior is wonderful (esp. Australian
>4.  Equipment that is reliable, unobtrusive, and
>functional.  I tend toward the Eheim and ADA product
>5.  Plants that bubble...I like this because it's so
>relaxing to lie on the floor and look up at the tank and
>see the sparkle.  It's an indicator that all is well to me
>as well.
>Roxanne Bittman
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:54:14 -0600 (MDT)
>From: George Booth <booth at lvld_hp.com>
>Subject: Re: Goals (Humorous ?)
>      The Top Ten Reasons To have Aquatic Plants
>      ------------------------------------------
>10.  I am a botanist and, like, what else is there?
>9.  I keep oscars and it gives them something to play with. 
>8.  I keep African cichlids and they aren't hungry any more.
>7.  I've mastered reefkeeping and I need a more challenging hobby. 
>6.  I have more money than I know what to do with. 
>5.  It keeps me out of bars on nights and weekends. 
>4.  They look more natural than diving dogs and bubbling volcanos.
>    Not that diving dogs and bubbling volcanos are bad, mind you. 
>... And on a more serious note ...
>3. They remove harmful toxins and excess nutrients. 
>2.  They provide high oxygen levels. 
>1.  They provide hiding places and shade to give the fish a sense
>    of security and they make the tank look great.  
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:00:08 -0600 (MDT)
>From: George Booth <booth at lvld_hp.com>
>Subject: Re: Dead SAEs
>A counter example may be appropriate here. 
>Some time ago we had a "CO2 disastor" when a pH electrode went belly-up 
>overnight causing the CO2 controller to think the pH was too high, causing
>CO2 to be on all night, causing a CO2 level that was close to 140 ppm in the 
>All the fish in the 120 gallon tank were in serious shape when we found
them in 
>the morning. We changed half the water (and the electrode) and hoped for the 
>best. We lost 8 adult Rainbowfish out of 12 (Glossolepsis seemed less
>but the adult SAEs, Farlowellas, Corys and Plecos all recovered with no
>ill affects. 
>George Booth in Ft. Collins, Colorado
> Do you want to know how I did it?
>  http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/AquaticConcepts 
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 98 14:08:46 EDT
>From: rjw at aluxs_micro.lucent.com (Ronald Wozniak)
>Subject: Re: Optimum
>Well, regards personal goals for planted tank:
>1. Bring a little science to the art aquatic plant growing.
>I view aquatic plant growing as one of those hobbys where
>one can know a little bit about a lot of different things.
>The disciplines of chemistry, biology, physics, electrical engineering,
>mechanical engineering, etc... can all be used at their basic levels.
>I'm a tinker, deprived experimentalist, and designer. I love to
>build things, optimize and simplify.  Most of my gadgets are home
>made or heavily modified commercial stuff.  Cheaper the better.
>( My work requires that I know a lot about a few things. Also, I find
>it enjoyable to study science for the fun of it. )
>2. Aesthetically pleasing.
>Approaching the beauty of an Amano's tank would be an ultimate goal.
>Unfortunately, I've got a long way to go, but it sure is gratifying
>to hear a visitor coming into your home and saying that you have the
>most beautiful aquarium they have ever seen.
>3. Someday I like to take all that I've learned and translate that into
>a plain simple elegant inexpensive method to grow aquatic plants.
>It would be kind of a payback to all that have helped me over the years.
>There's no way to pay back all the helpful experts, but maybe I could
>just help some of those who are just starting out....
>We are dreaming here, but who knows.  Again, I've certainly have a long
>ways to go, but even if it takes a lifetime to reach, who cares?
>4. Low maintenance.  Battling algae, water changes, trimming, etc. are
>all unavoidable, but reducing them to a minimum sure would be nice.
>Filters that clean themselves, light that is piped in from the sun,
>automating water changes, using fish and other critters to clean your
>tank, automating the mundane boring stuff (i.e. water tests) would all
>be a goal.  I enjoy feeding the fish every day, so I wouldn't automate that.
>- ---------------
>Ron Wozniak  Allentown PA, USA
>rjwozniak at lucent_com
>AGA member
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:38:10 +0000
>From: "Brad Grenard" <brgrenard at SMLY-01_HFS.PURDUE.EDU>
>Subject: re: Karen's question
>I'm one of the "lurkers" to whom Karen Randall referred, although I 
>have made a few posts to the list.  My reasons for getting into the 
>planted aquarium hobby:
>* The challenge.  I had kept aquatic plants in containers in a 55 
>gal. tank which had an undergravel filter.  Most of the plants grew, 
>but there wasn't much freedom to create new or natural 
>appearing layouts.
>* I wanted to create a healthy aquarium environment which might 
>require less maintenance.  I had been tearing down my UGF tanks every 
>year.  More on setup later.
>* I wanted to be able to use more plant species and have more tank 
>decorating options.  This has come true for me.  I started using 
>many of the techniques that are discussed on this list and my plants 
>are growing very well and I've had few failures.  Being able to place 
>plants in natural appearing ways is much more attractive than using 
>plants in containers.
>*  An unanticipated benefit is that my wife became more interested in 
>the tanks.  She has a very good eye for artistic arrangement and has 
>been a big help.
>I'd like to thank some of the "regulars" on the list for their 
>advice.  Last winter I asked for information about Ozelot Swords.  
>The LFS had some, but they seemed expensive.  Several people wrote 
>back and encouraged me to buy one.  I did, and now I sell small 
>Ozelot Swords to the LFS.  Also, on the advice from some list 
>"regulars" I bought a Python water changer and now I wonder why I 
>waited so long.
>And now, some words about tank setup.  Last January I set up a 55 
>gal. and a 75 gal. as plant tanks.  The 55 has 120w of light and the 
>75 has 160w.  For filtration, the 55 has a Renaissance model 20 
>cannister filter and the 75 has a Renaissance model 30.  Both have 
>DIY CO2.  The only difference in the 2 tanks is the way in which I 
>installed the substrate.  In the 55 I first put in about 1/2" of 
>gravel followed by about 1/2" of potting soil, followed by about 2 - 
>2 1/2" of mixed Flourite and gravel.  The 75 has the same substrate 
>ingredients and same substrate depth.  The only difference is that I 
>didn't first put in the 1/2" layer of gravel; I first put in the 
>potting soil followed by the Flourite/gravel mixture.  In the 75 the 
>potting soil is now oozing up through the gravel to the top of the 
>substrate and I have to vacuum it out. This hasn't happened in the 
>55.  If anyone has any reasons for why this happened, I'd like to 
>hear from them.
>This turned out to be longer that I'd intended.  Thanks for your 
>Brad Grenard
>Otterbein, IN
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:54:19 -0700
>From: Dave Gomberg <gomberg at wcf_com>
>Subject: Re: What plants are they?
>At 10:08 AM 8/12/98 -0700, Loc Nong wrote:
>>and click on the topmost thumbnail picture on the left to enlarge it, and
>>tell me what kind of plants they are.  
>This really belongs on the aquatic plant list, you might actually get some
>help there.
>The foreground plants are a dwarf sag (if not, then a dwarf Echinodorus or
>The background plants are another Echinordorus (melon maybe).
>The mid-ground plants on the left I don't believe are aquatic.
>- --
>Dave Gomberg, San Francisco            mailto:gomberg at wcf_com
>FormMaestro                              <http://www.wcf.com>
>- -----------------------------------------------------------------
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Dave Gomberg, San Francisco            mailto:gomberg at wcf_com
FormMaestro                              <http://www.wcf.com>