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Any plant suppliers in Hawaii?

Just wondering if there are any plant suppliers in Hawaii.  Alternatively
has anyone in Hawaii had any problems getting plants in from the mainland
using mail order.  I take it the state quarantine people check all plant
material coming into the state and wondering is this typically a long delay
while they do this.  I'd also be interested if anyone has experience with
mail order fish, for the same reasons.

-----Original Message-----
From: Aquatic-Plants-Owner at actwin_com
[mailto:Aquatic-Plants-Owner at actwin_com]
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 1998 9:48 AM
To: Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
Subject: Aquatic Plants Digest V3 #464

Aquatic Plants Digest    Saturday, August 22 1998    Volume 03 : Number 464

In this issue:

	Re:  canisters
	Re: comment on lumens (V3 #461)
	re: Activated carbon and trace elements
	Fluval 203
	Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V3 #463
	RE:Canister Filters
	Re: gravel, carbon, crustaceans and impellers
	Re: Activated carbon and trace elements
	Re: Plants going south

See the end of the digest for information on unsubscribing from the
Aquatic Plants mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.


Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 04:22:10 EDT
From: DENYSTA2 at aol_com
Subject: Re:  canisters

I have had problems with ehiems impellers heating up and melting in a short
time, the magums I have had, had impellers that were torn up pretty bad but
they still worked great, and I've never had a problem fuvals let, but I'd
to say the ehiems that have the heater in the canister keep the tank at a
pretty constant temp.


Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 07:27:12 -0400
From: "K. A. Bryant" <smskahj at netacc_net>
Subject: Re: comment on lumens (V3 #461)

Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:42:32 -0700 (MST), Roger Miller wrote:

>This difference is because the lumen measure is weighted toward green
>light - the light to which our eyes are most sensitive.  Light of that
>color is near the minimum in the photosynthetic action spectrum.  That
>makes lumens nearly irrelevant to whether or not a light is good for
>growing plants.

Are lumen measurements any more helpful if you are comparing the light
output of two lamps with the same color temperature?

Can anyone supply a reference on how lumens are measured?  I'd like to
understand how it is that "the lumen measure is weighted toward green light"
and what this weighting amounts to.

Kim Bryant
smskahj at netacc_net


Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 07:34:57 -0400
From: "Christopher Coleman" <christopher.coleman at worldnet_att.net>
Subject: re: Activated carbon and trace elements

Thanks for your most interesting though tentative analysis.

I noticed that to achieve your results, you utilized inductively coupled
plasma emission spectrometry equipment.

I know this is perhpaps asking a lot but would it be possible to use
this equipment to perform "just a little" analysis of the ingredient
composition of some commercial fertilisers?

Many on the list have questioned exactly what the ingredients are in
some of the popular fertilizers such as Dupla and ADA products.

Even if this is not convenient, your research was most interesting.

Christopher Coleman
christopher.coleman at worldnet_att.net


Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 14:53:32 +0100
From: "Andrew Holmes" <andys.plants at btinternet_com>
Subject: Fluval 203


I have just started using a Fluval 203 in a new planted tank with about 120
litres of water column. The fluval works by syphoning the water down the
outside of the cylinder and then pumps it up through media in the center of
the canister with an impeller. The impeller chamber leads to the 'out' pipe
which leads to a spray-bar (or in my case a CO2 reactor). Snails shouldn't
get into the impeller because it is after the filter media and the water
should be clear of debris at this point.

My tank is still very new so I cannot make any other comments about the
Fluval except that it came with loads of cool little plastic things for
doing different arrangements of pipe :-) (I used the bits to customise my DI
unit a bit :-))

Andy Holmes   West Sussex, ENGLAND

andyholmes at btinternet_com

   "They invade our space, and we fall back.
They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back.
   Not again. The line must be drawn here.
             This far, no farther.
And I will make them pay for what they've done."

  Picard, Startrek: First Contact.


Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:08:02 -0700
From: Frank <andermahr at earthlink_net>
Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V3 #463

Aquatic Plants Digest wrote:> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:22:53 +0700
> From: "jim" <jim at pontianak_wasantara.net.id>
> Subject: Crustaceans
> Anybody has experience to share about having friendly crustaceans in a
> community planted tank?
> Jim.

Hey Jim,
I have 9 algea eating shrimp that are thriving. I'm not sure if they are
"Wood shrimp", "Singapore shrimp" or what. But they dont seem to bother
anybody and from what I can tell they leave my plants alone. They are
constantly shoving bit of algea or bits of fallen food into their



Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:40:36 -0500
From: "Kenneth S. Bruno" <kbruno at bilbo_bio.purdue.edu>
Subject: RE:Canister Filters

        I have had my Eheim 2011 for 14 years.  Although my tank was not set
up for about four of those years during my undergrad.  It works perfectly
and I have never had a problem, nor have I had to replace any parts.  Eheim
may be a little more expensive but, in my opinion, well worth it.


Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:56:26 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Roger S. Miller" <rgrmill at rt66_com>
Subject: Re: gravel, carbon, crustaceans and impellers

John Lemons asked:

> P.S.  Why in the world does gravel cost so darn much from a lfs?

Because some people are willing to pay it.

> ------------------------------

Shawn Kesler wrote:
> The first round of study involving activated carbon and trace element
> in FW tanks is done.

Very cool!  Thanks a lot.  This probably will squelch a lot of (my)

Q:  Do you recall what Plantex CSM is chelated with?

Comment 1:  If I were to change your test conditions any, I'd
probably ask for more "aquarium-like" conditions, but I have no reason to
believe that there are non-linearities involved that would seriously
effect your results,

Comment 2:  Good luck trying to identify the organic coloring agents.
There may be some published information in European technical/
environmental literature.  I guess my main questions about it would be
"What is the mean molecular weight?" and "How does it effect alkalinity?"

> ------------------------------

Jim asked:

> Anybody has experience to share about having friendly crustaceans in a
> community planted tank?

Friendly?  The shrimp I've kept are friendly in about the same way that
cockroaches are friendly.   I haven't tried other crustaceans.

I'm having some success keeping ghost shrimp.  They breed in the tank and
I think I'm now in a third generation following an original purchase in
December, last year.  Success keeping them alive and molting in my water
seems to require that I add iodide to the water.

> ------------------------------

Chistopher Coleman asked:

> Do others have an opinion about impeller motors in a planted
> tank?  What do the Eheim and Fluval use for circulation?

To the best of my knowledge, all of the water pumps sold in the hobby for
filtering and circulation use impellers - in fact I've only seen a couple
pumps that didn't use the same basic impeller design.  "Dosing pumps" are
peristaltic pumps and don't use an impeller, but for higher flow rates
there aren't many alternatives.

Other non-impeller designs include propeller pumps (good for circulation,
but not used in the hobby), gear pumps (like many automobile oil pumps),
screw pumps (used for moving thick suspensions sometimes against high
pressure), piston pumps (not used in the hobby- I think the seals would
wear out too quickly), bladder pumps (low discharge, high pressure, too
much hardware), bellows pumps (I guess these are Walter Adey's favorite
plankton-friendly alternative) and variations on these.

Some of these designs might make fun DIY projects.

Roger Miller


Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:39:10 +0200
From: Luca Specchio <luckyluca at mclink_it>
Subject: Re: Activated carbon and trace elements

>Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:05:00 -0400
>From: "Shawn Keslar" <keslar at wvunrcce_nrcce.wvu.edu>
>Subject: Activated carbon and trace elements
>The first round of study involving activated carbon and trace element
>in FW tanks is done.
>Check it out at http://www.fayetteonline.net/users/sdkeslar

WOW !! That's GREAT !!! REALLY COOL !! I'm so glad ! Not because your
results give confirmation of what I wrote in this list and in the newsgroup
is right but because finally we _all_ have clear, real, sure results !!!

>Questions/comments are welcome!
As I wrote to you, it's important to work on organic source of N and P, and
see which effects AC has on them.
For this 1st round, I think it's important to understand which type of AC
(pores dimension, average surface, type of activation, if it's phosphate
free, whashed in acid or not?) has been used. That's important for
understanding better how the different types of carbons work. Then I'd like
to know which chelant agent was in CSM.



Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 14:39:09 EDT
From: IDMiamiBob at aol_com
Subject: Re: Plants going south

> I looked for dead bodies and found none. The fish are fine and behaving
>  normally. Ammonia and nitrites are zero.
>  Other readings using Lamotte kits are:
>  Phosphates 0
>  Nitrates 0
>  Iron .4 ppm after dosing with fertilizer. It was at .2ppm before.
>  Carbonate Hardness 2.7 dkh
>  General hardness is 10 ppm using a hobbyist kit. Ph varies from 6.2 to
>  7.0. I tried talking to my plants, but they swore at me

>  I would appreciate any suggestions members of the list might have. At
>  the present rate, I expect to have a compost pile in about 2 weeks.
Hardness of 10ppm sounds low, but plants will do okay at that level.  But
need phosphates and nitrogen in some form.  The trick is to provide it
putting it in the water column, where it will cause an algae bloom.  Try
Jobe's plant spikes for ferns. Put half a stick in the gravel at the base of
the plant.

Bob Dixon


End of Aquatic Plants Digest V3 #464

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