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"Ceder" roots

At 03:48 AM 6/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:19:12 -0400
>From: Neil Frank <nfrank at mindspring_com>
>Subject: Re: Cedar
>Bob Dixon says: [cedar] gives off toxic aromatics that will kill the
>>fish.  The fuzzy stuff won't grow either because of those same aromatics.
>Sexton counters with 
>Richard Sexton says he has used "seasoned" cedar for 25 years. This is
>anecdotal, but convincing. Based on his description, I would be willing to
>give it a try.  If you have some real evidence that its aromatics are toxic
>to specific fauna and flora of aquarium, please let us know. Do you and
>Richard have different inhabitants or different chemistry of your waters?
>On the other hand, first hand aquatic experience is critical. Although
>cedar emits something in the air which repels bugs, is it necessarily
>harmful to fish and plants. In fact, does submerged cedar behave the same
>as dry cedar?  Another important distinction may be the modifier
>"seasoned." Does the seasoning change the toxicity that Dixon talks about.
>- -- Neil, AGA

I've used both. The first one I tried was a root from a "ceder"
tree that had been chopped down. It was half submersed in 
an area that has lots of dead stumps and the area was a flood plain;
it was submersed for most of the year. It never fuzzed over and
was grey in color. It turned the water light tea color.

The water at the time was abuot 300 ppm hardness, pH 7.4; I kept
aponogetons and glow line rasboras. I did it because a friend of
mine, who was about 50 then, used to use the stuff to cure pop
eye in Oscars.

I've also tried a clump that was cut directly from a root and
never exposed to the elements. It was fuzzy for several 
years, and I'd just clean the fuzz off every so often. Water
was about the same and I've kept about two dozen different
species of killifish in with that branch.

I've killed fish in every way imaginable. I've never seen
one affected by ceder root.

Has anybody actually experienced harm come to their fish from
this or is this a theoretical concern?

I don't remember the book, but something I read in the 60's
or 70's mentioned using ceder ot cypress roots to stimulate
problem fishes to spawn. If I recall correctly, it was
a german book from the 40's or so.

Richard J. Sexton
richard at aquaria_net
Bannockburn, Ontario, Canada                       +1 (613) 473 1719