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Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #494

> 
> >Amano.  I've been reading alot about his tanks for quite some time now,
and
> >I'm rather tired of it.  I will admit, he certainly does take photo's of
> >beautiful planted aquarium's, but that does not prove that he knows how
to
> >keep a planted aquarium running smoothly.  It would not be too hard for
a
> >person to put plants in a tank, and take a photo after the water has
> >cleared.  
> 
> And anyone with any experience with plants could quickly see the
difference
> between a tank freshly set up (even with full grown plants) and one where
> the plants have settled in well, and the tank has started to mature.
> Remember too, that there are at least a few tanks that he shows photos of
> at various points in their lives.  

I know.  But I figured that it would be a good starting point for what I
wanted, which I'll explain later.

> 
> As final "proof" on Amano's ability to grow _and maintain long term_
> beautiful planted aquariums, I am fully satisfied with the first hand
> reports I have received from both Neil Frank and Claus Christensen.  I
know
> both of these people well enough to trust their judgement, and both have
> visited Amano and seen his tanks in person.


I have read enough of Neil Franks messages to know that I'd probably trust
what he says also (some of his posts and yours have helped me and my
tanks).

> 
> >I'm not saying that he does this, but what I have read of his
> >texts (which consists of articles he has written to TFH and such) he is
not
> >very scientific about his methods of maintaining planted tanks.  
> 
> I'd like to point out that _lots_ of successful aquatic gardeners in the
> past have not been very scientific.  I'm not saying that it's not good to
> understand why things work, but some people have always had the knack for
> getting it right.  I have photos and reports from the early 1900's of
> beautiful fully planted tanks, and those people didn't have a _clue_ why
> their tanks worked... they just knew what worked for them.  There are
still
> a lot of people out there like that.  

The main text I was refering to was how he decided what color of light to
use.  The article talked about how he was scuba diving and the color of his
wet suit changed colors underwater, so he figured that the color missing
was not as important...  Or something like that at least. <G>  Anyways, it
did not impress me much.  If he later went back to the lab and tested it,
fine and GREAT, but he does not mention if he did test it or not...

> 
> Take into consideration the language barrier too.  I suspect that a good
> part of the seeming lack of scientific method is actually lack of good
> translation. (a little tiny bit of the problem could be the publisher as
> well ;-)

True.  Shouldn't be that hard to get a good Japanese to English translator
now a days.  

> 
> >Another thing that bugs me about his methods are what everyone is
refering
> >to "hocus pocus" fertilizers and etc.  He does not seem to list his
> >ingredients on the labels or make them avalible since people on this
list
> >have requested someone to analyze his products to see what is really in
> >them.  This makes me skeptical from the get go. 
> 
> Has anyone asked him?  ADA is available by E-mail, and I have found them
to
> be quite responsive to my questions.  Up until very recently, very few
> companies listed ingredients.  Those that did should be applauded.  I
agree
> that I'd like to see ADA start listing ingredients.  I also don't like to
> use products when I don't know what's in them.  But lots of people have
> been using Dupla products with great success for many years now.   I'm
not
> sure that _just_ because a product isn't labeled the way I'd like it to
be
> that I'd call it "hocus-pocus".  

I didn't call it "hocus pocus" (hence the quotation marks) but several
others on the list have.  

> 
> >Amano does not have a track record long enough to satisfy me.  
> 
> Actually, Amano is not new, he's just new to the U.S.  He's been working
> with planted aquaria since 1972, how 'bout you ;-)
>

1972.  Pretty cool.  Now, I'll change that to:

I have not seen Amano's track record, so I'm not satisfied. <EG>
 
> >Tropica has
> >a track record of growing beautiful plants for many years, and selling
the
> >world wide with many people praising the quality of plants they recieved
> >from Tropica. 
> 
> Did you know that Claus Christensen is quite proud that Amano uses
Tropica
> plants in his work?

Nope...  That's cool.  Wish I could order plants from Tropica.  How good is
that place in California that uses Tropica's methods (BTW)....  Only thing
that bugs me about them is that you can evidently not choose what you want.
 You just send them $$$ and they send you a buncha plants...  

> 
> >All Amano offers us are a buncha pictures, shotty text when
> >looked at from a scientific point of view, and a buncha products that
are a
> >shot in the dark as far as knowing what you are putting in your tank
(and
> >that bugs me with Geo-Liquid also, but I'll save that for another day.) 


Saving for another day am I too!


> 
> One thing that I think that advanced hobbyists, especially the DIY types
> need to recognize is that there will _always_ be some people who feel
more
> secure with a packaged, commercial system that they can follow by rote
and
> produce good results.  They don't _want_ to learn the chemistry or
biology
> behind it, they want a pretty tank for the corner of the living room.
> While that's not my approach to the hobby, nor is it probably the
approach
> of most of the people on this list, it _is_ a valid approach to what,
after
> all, is a leisure time activity for most of us.  

Yea...  I want to know everything though, and I guess that's where part of
my problem lies.  I have such a thirst for knowledge in this area (and
others such as breeding guppies and discus) that it detracts from my
college home work in many instances....  Such is life tho...

"Guppies.  They are what kept me out of the really good colleges..."