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Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #344
Aquatic-Plants-Owner <Aquatic-Plants-Owner at ActWin_com> writes:
>Aquatic Plants Digest Monday, 18 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number
>344
>In this issue:
> Re: More on quality control
> answering newbie questions
> Re: Isoetes
> Re: Pencilfish
> Re: UGF Heating Alternative
> New book
> goof
> Re: Books, Phosphate, UG Heating
> Re: adding nitrates
> Re:Vita-B, Quillwort and increasing KH
> Sea Kelp
> WWW sites for plants photos
> LAWSHF drops
> re: Slow Flow UGF
> Allergies from aquatic plants?
>See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the
>Aquatic Plants mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: ac554 at freenet_carleton.ca (David Whittaker)
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 04:04:31 -0500
>Subject: Re: More on quality control
>Dave Gomberg writes....
>>There was a journal on computer performance. To get it, you had to
>>write an acceptable article. What if we combine that idea with the
>>idea of gating and let "qualified" writers join and post to APD and
>>gate it one way to the news group (so everyone can read it). If you
>>want to subscribe to APD, you must submit an article or question
>>answer to the editor. If she says yes, you are in. If he says no,
>>there is some appeal board. It is elitist, but justly so, I think.
>>Any thoughts?
>Maybe Dr. Dave could set an exam for each and every APD subscriber.
>It could be called APSAT. A pass you get to post; a failure earns
>you a stint in the doc's summer school. That would be a tough
>sentence.
>- --
>Dave Whittaker ac554 at FreeNet_Carleton.CA
>Gloucester, Ontario dwhitt at magmacom_com
>Canada
>------------------------------
>From: "Thomas Narten" <narten at VNET_IBM.COM>
>Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 22:09:50 -0500
>Subject: answering newbie questions
>Foks,
>If you are tired of answering the same question 1000 times, put it in
>a FAQ. What does FAQ stand for? If a question gets asked 1000 times,
>it needs to be in the FAQ. Then when one of these questions comes
>along, there are only two possibities: a) quote from the FAQ (nicely,
>preferably), or b) revise the FAQ so that next time the question will
>be answered.
>There is a plant FAQ. With a bit of love and attention, I'm sure it
>could evolve into something even better. I'm sure the FAQ maintainers
>would welcome new blood and enthusiasm.
>Thomas
>------------------------------
>From: Elizabeth Worobel <eworobe at cc_UManitoba.CA>
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 08:13:14 -0600 (CST)
>Subject: Re: Isoetes
>Isoetes is an interesting plant. First, its a fern with the sporangia
>located at the base of the leaves. Second, Isoetes get much of their CO2
>from
>the sediment through the roots. To do this they have a large root:shoot
>ratio and lots of aerenchyma. Third, Isoetes is a CAM plant which means
>that it can fix CO2 at night by forming C4 acids and then reduce the CO2
>in the following light period. Isoetes is usually found in acidic lakes
>or vernal pools that are extremely carbon limited.
>To successfully grow the plant you need acidic water, low light and a
>substrate which is enriched with either clay or some soil to supply CO2
>to the roots. At our local university Isoetes has been grown for years in
>a small 10g aquarium with no overhead lights (its in a dark corner of the
>greenhouse) and a soil/sand substrate. Every year or so the greenhouse
>operator throws in a handful of potting soil to renew the sediment. The
>plants are in great shape. Having said that, Ive tried at home to grow
>the same plant and have had no success ... my light is much higher, I
>have an alkaline pH, and 2 inches of plain gravel over my soil substrate.
>Good luck, Dr. dave
>------------------------------
>From: cbay at jeppesen_com (Charlie Bay)
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 07:43:39 -0700 (MST)
>Subject: Re: Pencilfish
>> > I recently had an aquarium fish retailer suggest pencil fish to
>> > Has anyone out there heard of this? I decided to get three of th
>> > posted on my experience.
>>
>> From: krandall at world_std.com (Karen A Randall)
>> I keep 3 species of Pencils in 2 tanks. They're very attractive
>> little fish, but I've never seen them eat much algae.
>I have a school of seven pencil fish in my 180 gallon planted
>tank. They are sensitive and very docile. I know mine have
>a preference for micro-pellets, and they have very small mouths.
>They're great for plant tanks, moving in and out of vegetation in
>the upper-half and surface; but you must have a very
>non-aggressive community.
>What do you feed yours, Karen? I've never seen mine eat algae
>either.
>- --charley
>cbay at jeppesen_com Fort Collins, CO USA
>------------------------------
>From: George Booth <booth at hpmtlgb1_lvld.hp.com>
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 08:17:09 -0700
>Subject: Re: UGF Heating Alternative
>> From: "Mark A. Bailey" <mbailey at crosslink_net>
>> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:29:17 -0800
>>
>> A couple of things:
>>
>> a. Since the PVC IS a good insulator, little heat would be lost during it's
>> travel. Therefore, the water in the tube could be maintained at a
>> relatively constant temperature.
>... and not much heat would be transferred to the substrate. What was
>your point?
>> b. If the PVC is not a great insulator, the heat transferred out of the
>> tube, would be proportional to the temperature difference. If the
>> first foot were hot for some reason, less heat would be transferred,
>> saving the heat for the next foot. This transient behavior
>> will eventually even out, again keeping the temperature in the tube
>> relatively constant.
>You have that just a little backwards. The greater the difference in heat,
>the faster the heat transfer. What you are saying is that food in the
>regular part of a refrigerator would get colder faster than food in
>the freezer. I don't think so.
>> Recently, I was reading an article (unfortunately I cannot find
>> the reference) where the author did this setup.
>It was in AFM last year and the author, Earle Hamilton, is/was on this
>mailing list.
>George Booth
>------------------------------
>From: George Booth <booth at hpmtlgb1_lvld.hp.com>
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 08:50:31 -0700
>Subject: New book
>> From: Pat Bowerman <bowerman at rog_ar.ispnet.com>
>>
>> Now for the good stuff, have any of our experts ever thought of
>> authoring a book on our hobby? I think that we would all agree that
>> there is a shortage of really good, beautifully illustrated books on
>> aquarium plants.
>You haven't looked hard enough.
>> I would buy it. (providing you kept it affordable)
>Ah, always a catch :-).
>> Also, I would like to see an American viewpoint on the subject. Not
>> that I have anything against our German and Japanese friends, but I
>> don't believe that they are the only ones qualified to write books on
>> the subject. My personal preference would be an illustrated plant
>> identification book with a small how-to section.
>I have been thinking about this for quite a while. I have receieved
>much positive feedback on my SST series (net postings, Krib archives,
>TAG series, AFM series) and have sold about 100 copies of a
>photocopied version of it.
>Based on my experience, the market has a plethora of books with
>pretty pictures and IDs (the Dennerle ad/book is THE best, IMHO).
>What is really needed is an in-depth "How To" book. This is what I
>receive the most comments on - "Finally, a step by step procedure on
>how to do this". "The Optimum Aquarium" comes close but stops just
>short, probably so you will buy their products (which also fall short
>since the instruction sheets are a bit :-) cryptic).
>I currently have about 7 megabytes of stuff on disk that just needs "a
>little formatting" for a book. Too bad I already have a job and three
>hobbies ...
>
>George
>PS: How much would you pay for a book?
>------------------------------
>From: George Booth <booth at hpmtlgb1_lvld.hp.com>
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 09:01:36 -0700
>Subject: goof
>> From: User645273 at aol_com
>> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 23:15:21 -0500
>>
>> I apologize. I goofed on Shaji's name. No hard feelings (I hope!)
>Dear User645273,
>Maybe I'm not in tune with the CyberAge yet, but I prefer to chat with
>people, not computer accounts. Do you have a name?
>George Booth
>PS: I know this should have been via e-mail, but it has happened so
>much I thought a general message may be appropriate.
>------------------------------
>From: Kevin Conlin <kcconlin at cae_ca>
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 11:25:39 -0500
>Subject: Re: Books, Phosphate, UG Heating
>Karen Randall wrote:
>> I have OFTEN seen cyanobacteria present even with high nitrate
>> levels.
>Paul and I find that green algae predominates when nitrates are
>available. However, cyanobacteria seem to thrive where nothing
>else can; if nitrates exceed 200ppm, or something else is killing
>green algae (perhaps the copper in your local water?), then the
>balance might shift back to the cyanobacteria. I think that traces
>of cyanobacteria are always present in a tank, but that when large
>quantities of the stuff are coating everything (as seems to be the
>case with Mr. Maladorno's tank), it's an indication that the phosphate
>levels are elevated but the nitrate levels are not.
>> In a tank
>> containing Discus, I suspect that the possibility of nitrogen
>> deficiency is somewhere between slim and none.
>In a tank full of well-fed discus, the total amount of nitrogen
>entering the system is quite high, but the amount of phosphate is even
>higher. Therefore, the plants run out of nitrogen (or K or trace
>elements) before they run out of phosphate, and the free phosphate is
>what's making the algae grow. It follows that you need to add extra
>nutrients to help the plants consume the extra phosphate. That's our
>hypothesis anyway. More details are found in our paper, which you're
>(hopefully) reading "as we speak". Of course, the whole approach falls
>apart if you don't have enough light to make use of all the available
>phosphate, which can happen if you use phosphate buffers or get a little
>carried away with the Pond Tabs.
>> My tanks show _no_ measureable nitrate (low range test kit) and I
>> have tremendous grow with little algae.
>If you're adding exactly (or nearly so) the amount of N required by your
>plants to consume all the available P, you'll get good plant growth
>with very little algae, and nitrates will be unmeasurable. Paul and
>I recommend a slight excess of nitrates to ensure that nitrates will
>never be the factor limiting plant growth.
>Yes, Paul and I are sticking our necks out by recommending that
>nitrates sometimes need to be added to a tank. Paul needs a shave
>anyway.
>> (none on the plants, some
>> on the glass that is easily removed at water change time) IMO
>> recommending a nitrate level of 10ppm is asking for trouble.
>I only recommend 10ppm because the first level on my test kit is
>20ppm. If you have a better test kit, 5ppm should be plenty.
>I've pushed my nitrates up to 30ppm (accidentally) without getting
>extra algae.
>> Some
>> people, with other parameters just right, get away with it, but
>> I'm fairly certain that it doesn't contribute to good plant growth
>> as long as ammonium is available, and it _can_ cause algae
>> problems.
>Nitrate by itself can't cause algae problems. You need P (and K and
>micronutrients) too.
>> That's one reason that I wouldn't call the DIY fertilizer "poor
>> man's Dupla drops"... Dupla drops do _not_ contain nitrate.
>You pay all that money for Dupla drops, and they don't even give you
>nitrate? I'd take them back for a refund.
>How about Poor Man's Improved Dupla Drops?
>- --
>Kevin Conlin kcconlin at cae_ca "We're Canadians. We HAVE to be polite"
>Finger as332 at freenet_carleton.ca for PGP public key.
>------------------------------
>From: Kevin Conlin <kcconlin at cae_ca>
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 11:44:29 -0500
>Subject: Re: adding nitrates
>On Friday, 15 March 1996, Neil Frank wrote:
>> [from Karen Randall]
>>
>> >That's one reason that I wouldn't call the DIY fertilizer "poor
>> >man's Dupla drops"... Dupla drops do _not_ contain nitrate.
>> >
>>
>> How about "lazy aquarist who starves his fish drops"
>No one who's ever seen me feed my fish would ever accuse me of starving
>them. I've got 6 cardinals, 10 hatchetfish, 5 pencil fish, 4 gouramis,
>5 African butterfly cichlids, 1 monster Anostomus, 3 farlowellas,
>2 otos, 1 medium pleco, 4 ginormous bleeding hearts, 1 clown pleco, one
>spotted raphael, 1 serpae tetra, and God knows what else in there, and
>they're all fat. I feed lots of rich frozen bloodworms and tons of
>freeze-dried flakes.
>And now, the punch line:
> I need to add nitrates precisely because I feed so much.
>- --
>Kevin Conlin kcconlin at cae_ca "We're Canadians. We HAVE to be polite"
>Finger as332 at freenet_carleton.ca for PGP public key.
>------------------------------
>From: krombhol at felix_TECLink.Net (Paul Krombholz)
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 11:43:12 -0600
>Subject: Re:Vita-B, Quillwort and increasing KH
>Neil Schneider wrote, March 17:
>>
>>The incredients are basicly the following: Alpha Napthalene Acetic Acid
>>(.12%) >Zinc, expressed as metallic - derived from sulfate (.10%)
>>Iron, expressed as
>>metallic - derived from sulfate (.10%), Mangenese, expressed as metallic -
>>derived from sulfate (.10%), Ethylene Dianime Tetraacetic Acid (2.00%),
>>Thiamine Hydrachloride - Viatimin B1 (.20%) (some brands don't contain
>>vitamin B1). The bottle I have in front of me is sold under the brand name
>>Vita-B, [Neil Schneider]
>>
>I don't know what the alpha napthalene acetic acid is for, unless it is an
>anitfungal or antibacterial agent. and I don't think that the vitamin B1
>is of any use to aquatic plants. I wouldn't worry about the sulfate.
>After all, plants need sulfur, usually absorbed as sulfate, as a
>macronutrient.
>Glenn McGregor asked about growing quillwort, March 17
>I had an Isoetes species for about a year, and it seemed easy to mantain,
>but propagating it is not easy. See the article about native New Zealand
>aquatic plants in the current issue of The Aquatic Gardener, Vol. 9, No. 1,
>if you can get it. It includes a discussion of several quillworts. Erik
>Olson used to have this article on the Krib, but I couldn't find it, just
>now.
>>------------------------------
>>Didi Soichin was concerned about the gravel increasing the KH. March 17.
>Hardware stores sell "muriatic acid" which is really hydrochloric acid. It
>is, of course, a lot stronger than vinegar. I suggest that you buy some of
>that and soak your suspect gravel in it. It should remove any limestone
>contaminants. If the gravel is entirely limestone, you will find that out,
>also, because it will do a lot of foaming. There is no way gravel can
>increase KH after having been soaked in an acid this strong. Rinse well!
>Paul Krombholz Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS 39174
>I should be grading lab reports and exams!
>------------------------------
>From: Hextek at aol_com
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 12:52:25 -0500
>Subject: Sea Kelp
>I have been trying to find the Microplex brand name micronutrient without
>success locally. I have come across a product called Floral Micro by General
>Hydroponics but it has 5% nitrogen and calcium, which I think are two
>undesirables. It also has on average only 10% of the trace elements
>Microplex has. The stuff costs $10/pint. Another product is sea kelp by a
>company called MaxiCrop. Has anyone ever tried this? There is no break down
>of trace elements just 'sea kelp'. This stuff is about $9/quart and is
>dilutted 2 tablespoons/gal. The hydroponics people claim this stuff works
>the best. The question is, will something in there nuke my fish?
>By the way, this is the most informative list on aquarium plants and I think
>it deserves preservation for both the expert and novice. We need to get the
>novices to look at the archives for basic questions.
>Thanks,
>Rich, Tucson AZ || hextek at aol_com ||
>------------------------------
>From: Jorge Braz <qjpcbraz at cc_fc.ul.pt>
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 13:11:46 -0500
>Subject: WWW sites for plants photos
> Can anybody tell me of good places to see some photos that help me
>identify the plants. Thank you very much.
> Jorge Braz
>------------------------------
>From: "David W. Webb" <dwebb at ti_com>
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 11:54:19 -0800
>Subject: LAWSHF drops
>>> >That's one reason that I wouldn't call the DIY fertilizer "poor
>>> >man's Dupla drops"... Dupla drops do _not_ contain nitrate.
>>
>>> How about "lazy aquarist who starves his fish drops"
>>
>>That works, except LAWSHFD is a pretty long handle ;-)
>As a "LAWSHF", I'd like to say that since I set up my 55g tank, my apple
>snails have laid eggs 5 times and my platies have dropped so many babies that
>I have no hope of counting them. The only type of food I've added to the
>tank is top-off water, Dupla 24 drops, a few AP plant tabs, and a little
>Tetra FloraPride (in the nutrient injection system).
>I consider my aquariums as indoor ponds now, and the combined low maintenance
>and attractive looks make them well worth the initial setup effort.
>I may soon move some of my ottos to the 55g and maybe get a few more ghost
>shrimp to add there as well (ghost shrimp and apple snails seem to be a good
>combo).
>David W. Webb
>Enterprise Computing Provisioning
>Texas Instruments Inc. Dallas, TX USA
>(214) 575-3443 (voice) MSGID: DAWB
>(214) 575-4853 (fax) Internet: dwebb at ti_com
>(214) 581-2380 (pager) Text Pager: pgr at ti_com Subj:PAGE:David Webb
>------------------------------
>From: "David W. Webb" <dwebb at ti_com>
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 11:42:21 -0800
>Subject: re: Slow Flow UGF
>>However, I can think of 2 drawbacks of using a slow flow UGF (as described
>>above):
>>1. all substrate MAY become aerobic.
>>2. soil/loam/vermiculite/whatever substrate cannot be used
>>because it has a tendency to cloud the water.
>I have what could be considered a slow substrate flow system in both of my
>tanks and would have to disagree. In both cases, flow is basically
>negligable, and can be measured in drops per minute. This isn't enough flow
>to upset much of anything or to cause the substrate to be completely aerobic.
> It does promote substrate mixing, with can assist in dispersing sulfate
>accumulations.
>I have a sand/vermiculite substrate in each of my tanks and find the
>vermiculite to very good about leaving the water unclouded, even when I pull
>up a plant. Yes, I do get a small eruption of vermiculite flakes, but they
>settle back out within a few minutes. If given the time, they will either
>settle into my sand, or they will eventually settle out in my settling tank.
>David W. Webb
>Enterprise Computing Provisioning
>Texas Instruments Inc. Dallas, TX USA
>(214) 575-3443 (voice) MSGID: DAWB
>(214) 575-4853 (fax) Internet: dwebb at ti_com
>(214) 581-2380 (pager) Text Pager: pgr at ti_com Subj:PAGE:David Webb
>------------------------------
>From: schmaus at drmail_dr.att.com (SchmausJ)
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 11:49:39 -0700
>Subject: Allergies from aquatic plants?
> Fellow Aquatic Plant lovers,
> Has anybody ever had allergic reactions from their plant tank?
> Over the last two weeks I've started getting asthma attacks whenever
> I open the tank or, now, even go into the basement.
> My giant val just recently produced several flowers, which is the
> only thing that's changed in the tank over the last two weeks. I
> removed all of them I could find. I am vigorously hoping that's
> the source of the pollen! Otherwise I'll have to move out, or
> get rid of the tank!
> SO, has anybody ever heard of allergic reactions to aquatic plants?
> I've got:
> Anubias barteri, "normal" and nana varieties.
> Some of these have new blooms. I hope it's not
> these, since I rather like them.
> Myriophyllum (I think that's what it is -- a sprig of it
> rode in with the bunch of plants I bought from
> George a few months back) No visible flowers.
> Ludwigia. No visible flowers
> Corkscrew Val. No visible flowers
> Echinodorus Tenellus No visible flowers
> Java Fern <-- it's got spores, too!
> Giant Val No flowers since I clipped them.
> Bacopa No visible flowers
> Any ideas? Are any of these known to be "aquatic ragweed"?
> Thanks,
> John
>------------------------------
>End of Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #344
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Didi Soichin
didi at wwnet_com
Westland, MI, USA