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Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #333
At 03:39 AM 3/15/96 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Aquatic Plants Digest Friday, 15 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 333
>
>In this issue:
>
> UGF Heating Alternative
> Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #331
> Re:Digests in Digests
> Re:mutating plants with CO2
> Re: Digests in Digests
> Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #329
> Phosphate
> Re: rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
> Foxtail Fern
> Books, UGF/Heater, Advice, APD, Trace Element Sup's
>
>See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the
>Aquatic Plants mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>From: George Booth <booth at hpmtlgb1_lvld.hp.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:13:24 -0700
>Subject: UGF Heating Alternative
>
>> From: Bob Woolley <macaw at tiac_net>
>>
>> I was thinking about UGF and came up with the following: What about =
>>
>> putting a spaced coil of hard PVC tubing(say 1/8 inch diam) under =
>>
>> the substrate and pumping warm( or hot) water through it in a closed =
>>
>> loop system? Any thoughts on this??
>
>Aside: Where in the heck do these "=" and extra spaces come from?
>Even my normally pristine postings seem affected in the latest APD.
>
>Some thoughts about the above:
>
>1. PVC is a relatively good insulator. You would not get very
>effective heat transfer from the tubing to the substrate.
>
>2. The gravel near the "hot" end of the coil would get more heat than
>the gravel towards the outlet end of the coil as heat is slowly
>dissipated. Depending on how it was set up, you might be heating only
>the first foot or so.
>
>3. How hot does the water need to be to warm the gravel enough? The
>Dupla coils get to about 90 F. If the PVC acts as insulation, how
>much hotter does the water need to be? And how will you get it that
>hot?
>
>George
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: olga at arts_ubc.ca
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:56:49 -0700
>Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #331
>
>Shaji you wrote:
>>
>>Personally, I'd like to see the mailing list closed to new
>>subscribers right now.
>>
>This is not a bad idea. New people can use the newsgroup and if enough of
>them want a list they could start another one up. I also like the list but
>really don't want it getting any bigger. If too many people leave it could
>be opened up again to maintain a certain level of membership.
>
>Olga
>in Vancouver, where, when it's nice, it's glorious.
I dont understad why restricting new members would help? Norm Baker
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: krombhol at felix_TECLink.Net (Paul Krombholz)
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:03:32 -0600
>Subject: Re:Digests in Digests
>
>Somehow Aquatic Plant digest VI # 306 showed up a couple of times inside
>later digests. Any idea, Shaji, how this happened? By the way, thank you
>for a great job, Please don't quit. So far, there isn't very much on the
>news group.
>
>I havn't forgotten that I owe you some C. aponogetifolia. My single plant
>is coming along nicely and has a runner now.
>
>Paul Krombholz Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS 39174
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: krombhol at felix_TECLink.Net (Paul Krombholz)
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:29:24 -0600
>Subject: Re:mutating plants with CO2
>
>- -----------------------------
>
>Ghazanfar K Ghori write, March 13:
>>
>> I tried a DIY CO2 setup about 5 months ago on my heavily
>> planted 20H tank. At the time I started it the plants were
>> doing OK...wernt dieing..but were growing slowly. When I started
>> the CO2..the plant growth exploded! The melon sword was putting
>> up a bigger leaf every 5-6 days...and the hygro needed to be trimmed
>> every week cuz it shot to the surface. I noticed one thing though...
>> all the new leaves were differnt than the old non-CO2 ones. The
>> sword plant had longer leaves on short stems and the melon
>> sword had a much rounded red spotted leaf on a comparativly short
>> stem. The inter nodal space in the hygro was longer...about 1.5 "
>> if I remember correctly. I had this going for about 2 months when
>> I removed the Co2 and shifted the tank to a site near the window.
>> The plants did a lot better (sunlight) and the leaves returned
>> to their normal shapes...and the growth rate stayes more of less the
>> same cept for the hygo..which I threw out and replqaced with
>> sunset hygo..cuz it grows slower. Though now I have to hack it
>> every 10 days or so. The Java moss didnt do as weel with the Co2..
>> I think it turned knda black...though now its fine.(without Co2)
>> Anyone else expreiance this? And what that white fluffy stuff that
>> forms on the tubing where the Co2 enters the tank water?
>> Fish are fine..never had any die when I started /stopped CO2.
>> Im thinking about starting Co2 again. Just wanted to ask this stuff
>> b4 I did. thanks.
>>
>The response to the CO2 injection sounds typical. Many plants change their
>leaf shape, internodal length, etc. when given CO2 injection plus good
>conditions in other areas. Hygrophila polysperma, especially, can change
>when given CO2. Its leaves can get up to three inches long, and the edges
>can become wavy. The regular green variety can get brownish-green when it
>gets near the surface. It can grow over an inch a day, and the leaves can
>get a 'swept back' look as it races along the surface.
>
>Now that you have some sun on your tank and no CO2 injection, you may find
>that some plants are out-competing others for the limited amount of CO2.
>If some plants stop growing altogether, they are probably losing in the
>competition for CO2. I have had tanks where Ceratophyllum, Najas, or
>Elodea took over, and the Hygrophila stopped growing entirely.
>
>If you start up the CO2 again while the plants are getting some sun, the
>growth will be even more rapid. Consumption of nutrients will be more
>rapid, also, and deficiency of something-or-other will probably show up
>unless you fertilize heavily.
>
>That white fluffy stuff is probably a colorless cyanobacterium that is
>living as a saprobe (absorbing its food). When I looked at a similar mass
>with a microscope it looked like a variety of Oscillatoria. It may mean
>that you are getting along with the CO2, some of the sugar solution from
>your system.
>
>Paul Krombholz Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS 39174
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: Shaji Bhaskar <shaji at nando_net>
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 19:58:40 -0800
>Subject: Re: Digests in Digests
>
>> * To: Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
>> * Subject: Re:Digests in Digests
>> * From: krombhol at felix_TECLink.Net (Paul Krombholz)
>> * Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:03:32 -0600
>>
>> Somehow Aquatic Plant digest VI # 306 showed up a couple of times inside
>> later digests. Any idea, Shaji, how this happened? By the way, thank you
>> for a great job, Please don't quit. So far, there isn't very much on the
>> news group.
>
>The problem was that someone's mailing list software was returning all
>digests to aquatic-plants at actwin_com. Strangely, the From: line was
>also being set to aquatic-plants at actwin_com. But the email header had
>enough information in it to allow me to identify the user who was causing
>the problem, and remove him from the list.
>
>There were a couple of subsequent cases where people quoted entire digests
>when replying to a single article. Anyway, things seem to be stable now.
>
>I don't intend to quit cold turkey, killing off the mailing list. A couple
>of peole have volunteered to take over, and one of them will be replacing
>me soon. The list will still have a home at actwin.com, so the transition
>will, I hope, be very smooth. There should be no changes to the user
>interface.
>
>> I havn't forgotten that I owe you some C. aponogetifolia. My single plant
>> is coming along nicely and has a runner now.
>
>I am a very patient person. I am in no hurry.
>
>- -Shaji
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: krombhol at felix_TECLink.Net (Paul Krombholz)
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:58:31 -0600
>Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #329
>
>Daniel wrote Wed, Mar. 13
>>Hello!
>> I'm just setting up a 30g tank, and I foolishly bought two 20w
>>(24") tubes and an electronic ballast to power them, even though I don't
>>know much about fluorescent lighting. I hooked up the ballast
>>(Coralife/Energy Savers Double Wizard T-12 kit) and lights (one 20w Triton
>>and one 20w Beauty Light) according to the box instructions, but the lights
>>won't light up reliably. Sometimes I can get both lights to come on if I
>>rub just one of the bulbs with my finger-- as if the electric field in the
>>bulbs is almost, but not quite, strong enough to get things going. What's
>>going on? What might I be doing wrong?
>
>First, check to see what type of bulbs you got. There are pre-heat and
>rapid start bulbs, and, for best results, the bulbs should match the
>ballast. The ballast should have a label that tells you the kind of bulb
>it is designed for.
>
>Second, if you made your own light hood, the lights may not go on reliably
>if the hood is made of wood. A metal hood helps the arc get started in the
>bulbs, because a metal surface is parallel and near to the bulbs. If you
>made a wooden hood, you can fix this problem by lining the inside of the
>hood with aluminum foil. Since you said that the lights come on sometimes
>if you rub one of the bulbs, that suggests that perhaps a strip of foil
>along the backs of the bulbs might be helpful.
>
>Try it and let us know what happens. Good luck!
>
>Paul Krombholz Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS 39174
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: Cynthia Sickler <FGSSCOMM at teleport_com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 20:12:44 -0500
>Subject: Phosphate
>
>What would be the effect on my plant tank with phosphates up
>What should I be looking for etc... Any help would be greatly
>appreciated.
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: Stephen.Pushak at saudan_HAC.COM
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 18:53:20 PST
>Subject: Re: rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
>
>Shaji wrote:
>> If volume is a problem (and I think it already is)
>> then those that want the mailing list to survive
>> need to fix it. Enough people may leave for the
>> newsgroup, making this a non-issue. If traffic
>> remains at current levels, or increases, the list
>> may need to be closed to new members, and would-be
>> subscribers encouraged to start their own mailing
>> lists. I see no reason why multiple mailing lists
>> and newsgroups, each with its own character, cannot
>> coexist. We are here to enjoy a hobby, not to compete.
>>
>> Personally, I'd like to see the mailing list closed to
>> new subscribers right now.
>
>I think a consensus is forming here that we feel the APD
>and the news group should have different functionalities.
>What has made the list a high quality medium is the
>high ratio of technical info to repetitive help questions.
>The congenial nature of the list is due to its membership
>not to any advantage in the format so ideally we should
>be able to enjoy a similar environment in the news group
>if we encourage folks constructively and by setting a good
>example. The news group is after all, a free forum where
>no one is restricted access. What Shaji and others seem
>to be suggesting sounds like a change to the charter of
>the mailing list and that we intend it to be a more
>technical forum. I feel that this information should be
>freely available to the world. The archives provide that
>in one sense and a oneway gateway of the APD onto the
>newsgroup would provide another.
>
>I have some other ideas to toss out for discussion.
>
>a) a modified charter for the APD to define it as a
> technical forum
>
>b) a moderated mailing list in addition to a)
>
>c) a rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants_technical newsgroup
>
>d) a moderated c)
>
>A moderated list or newsgroup would provide us with the
>highest quality resource however the volume of technical
>posts here is quite high and it would be lotsa work
>and a difficult and thankless task to moderate.
>
>Until now, no one has ever suggested that help-me type
>questions are not welcome in this list and unless we
>change the charter, that should not change either.
>(Help-me questions ARE still very welcome)
>
>On the other hand, discussing and solving the problems
>of experienced aquatic plant hobbyists is fairly
>important... where do you draw the line? and who draws
>that line?
>
>Ok, enough of weighty political matters; now some fun
>stuff:
>
>Anybody in Vancouver or suburbs want some Salvinia or
>red Ludwigia? It's trimmin' time!!
>
>Vancouver Steve
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: Jack Tuchscherer <tuchj at sasknet_sk.ca>
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 21:13:18 -0800
>Subject: Foxtail Fern
>
>Can you e-mail any information you have on Foxtail Fern.
>
>thank you
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: krandall at world_std.com (Karen A Randall)
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 22:51:36 -0500
>Subject: Books, UGF/Heater, Advice, APD, Trace Element Sup's
>
>Subject: Aquatic Plant Books
>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I have to admit to being somewhat of a book freak. With this in
>> having read the FAQ, how about putting together a list of the aq
>> plant books that we all own? The purpose would be to allow me (a
>> so inclined) to purchase some of the books that are so casually
>> in the mailing list.
>
>Do you know that the AGA as an extensive bibliography available
>for exactly this purpose? This is a 36 page list of books and
>pamphlets on aquatic plants available to our members for $5.
>
>- -----------------------------
>Subject: UGF/heater method
>
>> Hi. I'm new to the web, and have learned alot the last couple m
>> reading the mailing list, FAQs, and other postings. I'm plannin
>> up a 30-gallon plant tank........but still haven't decided wheth
>> to go with UGF or not (one week - yes, the next week- no). I've
>> against heating cables (too expensive, and I'm not handy with e
>> components). I've seen some discussions on the UGF/heater metho
>> couldn't find a description of the set-up. Could somebody tell
>> works, or point me in the right direction?
>
>Although I am not the person who developed this method, (it was
>developed by Claus Christensen of Tropica in Denmark) I am the
>person who introduced it both to AGA and APD members.
>
>The advantages are that it is simple and inexpensive to install,
>and the electrical parts are easily accessible in the event of a
>failure. Best of all it works. I have been running the system for
>almost 2 years now, as have several of my friends. _ALL_ of us
>have seen increased growth and vigor in our root feeding plants.
>
>The only possible disadvantages would be the fact that it probably
>doesn't move water evenly through the substrate, (but there are
>many people who don't think cables do either<g>) and the fact that
>it keeps the substrate the same temperature as the tank water, not
>warmer. It _definitely moves enough water through the substrate
>to keep the bottom of the tank as warm as the rest of it.
>
>Place a UGF plate in the bottom of the tank. If you are using a
>fine substrate that might fall through the plate, wrap it in
>fiberglass screening first. (I use monofilament fishing line to
>"sew" the screen around mine) Put the riser tubes in place, and
>put your substrate on top of the plates. Now comes the biggest
>difference between this system and a standard UGF. Instead of
>placing airstones or power heads in the risers, drop a 7.5W
>submersible non-thermostatic down each one. (I use 2 in a 55G
>tank)
>
>The warm water rising in the tubes moves water _very_ slowly
>through the substrate. Remember that the purpose is to warm the
>substrate and bring nutrients down into it. it can _not_ be
>expected to serve the function of an under gravel _filter_ when
>run in this manner.
>
>Some people have mentioned experiments with plenums in planted
>tanks similar to those now being used by many reef keeper. I
>wonder if part of the success of this method is the slightly
>anaerobic "empty" space under the substrate.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>> From: Christine Martens <Christine_Martens at qmgates_affymax.com>
>> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 17:43:16 +0000
>> Subject: RE: Advice for a plant beginner?
>
><big snip>
>
>> WARNING!!! With a little new growth showing, I got hooked!!!! No
>> CO2 generator, and I added some Flourish tabs. I started feeding
>> an iron chelate solution. I drooled on a copy of the Amano book
>> Place, $22 and really beautiful). I've fantasized about tearing
>> and setting it up "right" from the beginning!! Spring is here an
>> weeding _outside_, but here I am cutting off the occasional brow
>> tank. OH NO!! I'm HOOKED!!!
>>
>> Again, my BIG thanks go to people who have so kindly and generou
>> to naive questions (from me and others) here. I recommend that y
>> archives and listen to the advice. I hope some of these comments
>> others decide to go for it. It's a LOT nicer than the old plasti
>> had algae problems too)!
>
>Thanks for posting! It's fun to here of a newly successful
>aquatic gardener!
>
> ------------------------------
>
>Subject: Whole previous digests as posts
>
>> Olga, the reposting of everything occurs when the brain-dead (us
>> a buggy program) decides that it needs to repeat the mail it is
>> bouncing in a bounce message. Then the list decides the bounce
>> is a posting. Real list software (LISTSERV) has code in it to
>> prevent this. Hopefully, someday we can get actwin to run lists
>> instead of majordomo. If there is anything I can do to encourag
>> this I will try.
>
>That may be part of the problem, but most that I have seen
>recently have been new posters not knowing how to cut out the rest
>of the digest when they reply to a single post it contains.
>
> ------------------------------
>
>Subject: If it Ain't broke..............
>
>> Now back to plants,
>> After adding a CO2 injector to my tank, I was amazed and de
>> the tremendous growth in my tank. I was using Tetra Florapride a
>> good results. My definition of good results being good plant gro
>> little or no algae problems.
>> Happy at my successful tinkering, I decided to tinker some
>> ordered some fertilizer. I ordered Coralife iron supplement and
>> freshwater micronutrient with iron. I also ordered Tetra's Crypt
>> started adding small amounts of each at each water change. The p
>> responded with even more tremendous growth. I bet you can probab
>> happened next.
>> Yep that's right, Algae. Even the word is ugly. My best des
>> would be a soft, light green fuzz. Almost invisible when viewed
>> it is quite visible from the side. It appears as 1/4 to 1/2 inch
>> filaments attached mostly to the swords. My Otos won't touch the
>> it is impossible to remove by hand.
>> The 42 gallon hex is densely planted. It is virtually overg
>> Limnophila Sessiflora. It also contains a large Echinodorus Cord
>> large Echinodorus Paniculatus. The shade is divided up, by vario
>> an A. Nana .
>>
>> My next move is as follows:
>> 1. Stop the fertilizers for a while, maybe a long while!
>> 2. Order a phosphate and nitrate test kit.
>> 3. Change part of the water.
>> 4. Hope that one of you has some great advice.
>
>These are all good steps to take. I would do largish water
>changes frequently (like twice a week if you can) until the
>problem starts to abate. The good news is that problems that can
>be attributed to a specific change are the easiest to fix. Just
>stop doing what ever caused the problem and step up the water
>changes.
>
>FWIW, it's probably not a good idea to mix trace element
>supplements. Find a good, well balanced product _THAT WORKS WITH
>YOUR SPECIFIC TAP WATER CONDITIONS_ and stick with it. The best
>product for me might not be the best product for you, based on the
>minerals already available in your water supply.
>
>Karen Randall
>Aquatic Gardeners Assoc.
>Boston, MA
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #333
>************************************
>
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>
eeep!