RE: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #319

Franc Gorenc wrote re Fontinalis antipyretica -

A related ( or perhaps the same species) occurs here in Australia but is only found in cool running mountain streams growing on the streamside rocks and stumps and into the water . It seems to need low temeratures (probably below 20C) , moving water, a stable but only slowly eroding substrate, low to moderate intensity light, and patience. 

I have never been able to maintain it at home for longer than 4-6 months - probably ,in retrospect, due to the onset of summer. I recall from my reading somewhere that the specific name "antipyretica" comes from the mediaeval practice of using it as stuffing in the walls of fireplaces as insulation ?

Bruce Hansen

From: 	Aquatic-Plants-Owner at actwin_com[SMTP:Aquatic-Plants-Owner at actwin_com]
Sent: 	Monday, 11 March 1996 18:39
To: 	Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
Subject: 	Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #319

Aquatic Plants Digest       Monday, 11 March 1996       Volume 01 : Number 319

In this issue:

	Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #299
	Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #317
	Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #315
	electrical safety
	Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #318
	Re: List Vs. Newsgroup
	Re: List Vs. Newsgroup
	Re: Roots Growing...
	Re: Newsgroups

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the
Aquatic Plants mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.


From: franc at golden_golden.net
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 16:01:59 +0000
Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #299

> > >From: Elizabeth Worobel <eworobe at cc_UManitoba.CA>
> > >Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 15:00:47 -0600 (CST)
> > >Subject: Re: CO2 and aquatic plants

> As to your second point, physiologists have long suggested that low mat 
> forming species make use of CO2 diffusing out of the sediment. The moss 
> Fontinalis, for instance, requires very high free CO2 concentrations when 
> grown in the lab. This suggests strongly that they are making use of 
> sedimentary CO2 in a natural environment.
Ever since I have seen Amano's book I wanted to get Fontinalis Antipyretica
(moss similar to Java moss) without success. Most people have not even
heard of it. Do you have experience growing it, or have access to it? 
If so, please let me know.

> Finally, are you going to banish me to the wasteland of sci.aquaria if I 
> continue to sign as Dr. dave? There I can talk to myself to my hearts 
> content.


> Dr. dave

Franc Gorenc              franc at golden_net
Kitchener, Ontario     http://www.golden.net/~franc


From: ac554 at freenet_carleton.ca (David Whittaker)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 17:39:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #317

Shaji Bhaskar wrotw....
>We could dismantle the list, keep it running, or look into the possibility 
>of some kind of mail to newsgroup gateway for people without Usenet access.

Duplicate postings to both the newsgroup and the List seems silly.
I prefer the List, but the newsgroup will probably attract a larger
more "diverse" readership. Maybe we should have given more consideration
to those with only mail access beforehand. Will the new group be
carried by all providers? Maybe not. It's "un fait accompli" so lets

>If there is sufficient interest in continuing the mailing list, I'd really
>like to see someone else take over my job of keeping it running.

This list has been a success as the postings and responses have improved
in quality month after month. On behalf of all of the readers thankyou
Shaji for your time and effort.

- --
Dave Whittaker                       ac554 at FreeNet_Carleton.CA
Gloucester, Ontario                  dwhitt at magmacom_com


From: krombhol at felix_TECLink.Net (Paul Krombholz)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 18:12:52 -0600
Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #315

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: Zeb Swinney <zeb at capital_net>
>Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 03:23:55 GMT
>Subject: Roots growing from stem and other questions
>I finally got my 75G set up a month ago.  I stuffed it(about 40% of total
>volume) with a lot of fast growing plants(plus a couple of slower ones) to
>keep algae in check.  In the future I plan on trimming everything back and
>adding some lower light plants and more variety.
>The problem is that my hygro polysperma, hydrocotyle leucopetala, bacopa
>carolinia, nomaphila sticta, and alternatheria rosaefolia have all developed
>what look like tiny white roots growing out of the stems and I don't like
>it. Do I have any options short of cutting off all these tiny roots by hand
>which is really not possible.  What is causing this? Other than this
>unsightly problem the plants listed above are growing like crazy.

The roots coming from the stems are normal in your Hygrophila, Hydrocotyle,
Nomaphilia, Bacopa and Alternanthera. Actually, they are a sign that growth
conditions are good for these plants.They don't look so bad when you get
used to them.

....<Tank specs snipped>......
>Random questions:
>Why is my lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae not rapidly spreading all over my
>substratta and making a beutiful carpet?  They have not died but they don't
>look very healthy and they have not put out any runners.  They are planted
>in a spot that gets direct light.  I mail ordered them from Natural Aquarium
>and they appeared healthy when I got them.

Liliaeopsis is sometimes a little slow to get started. It needs lots of
light, also.  Six 40 watt bulbs ought to be enough if they aren't being
shaded out by the rampaging Hygrophila, etc.  Be patient.
>Are the "micro swords" I got from a local fish store really a larger variety
>of the above mentioned lillaeopsis?  They are very similar looking and are
>having the same problems.  The only visual difference is size.  The fish
>store ones are about 5" tall and the NA ones are 2" tall.
No.  The micro swords are definitely in a different genus than Liliaposis.
The former is a monocot, and the latter is a dicot.  They do like a little
mud to get their roots into.  How far below the surface of the gravel is
the laterite?

>I got an Alternatheria "isabella" from NA and this plant has done absolutly
>nothing.  I guess I should have known better than order a plant that isn't
>listed in any of my books.  This plant is also receiving direct light.  Any
>Suggestions?  BTW the alternatheria rosaefolia I got at a local store is
>doing very well.

Sorry, I don't know this plant.

>Java fern from NA has not attached itself to the rocks I rubbr banded it to.
>It has been in the tank for a month and hasn't grown and looks kind of
>unhealthy.  How long does it take for these plants to stick?

Java fern is always a slow plant.  I don't think that it attaches to rocks
very well, but it never has been healthy for me unless it is growing roots
that have visible root hairs on them.  I have had good growth when it has
its roots in the gravel and the rhizome at the surface.
>Hygro poly which was green when I got it has turned into a pale red.  This
>plant is growing like CRAZY!  Is the reddish color due to strong light?
The reddish or brownish color is a response to good light and good growing
conditions.  Hygrophila can grow more than an inch a day.  You need to
prune it severely and frequently to keep it from taking over.

>I got an echinodorus "rubra" from NA.  The plant is doing well.  Does anyone
>know if this is the proper name?  It has entire shaped leaves that are
>reddish green with light green  veins. A very nice plant but I don't know
>how tall or wide it will get so I'm not sure where to plant it.
This is likely E. osiris.  The new leaves should be reddish, but turn a
somewhat translucent green after they have reached full size.  Put it in
the middle.  It can get big enough to dominate a 75 gallon.

>I got a "brazilian sword" from the local store a few days ago.  It has 3"
>long leaves that are egg shapped but flair down to a point at the tip.  The
>stems are about 6" long and the plant is dark green.  the roots were huge
>and obviusly emerse grown, they had clumps of potiing soil stuck to them.
>Any suggestions?
That is a hard one to guess.  Many of the swords are from Brazil.  It might
be E. grisebachii or E. opacus.

....<rest on growth snipped>.....

Paul Krombholz                  Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS  39174


From: KB Koh <KB_Koh at ccm_ipn.intel.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 09:56:00 PST
Subject: electrical safety

>From: johnc at msc_edu (John Cavanaugh)
>Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:23:33 -0600 (CST)
>Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #310
>KB Koh <KB_Koh at ccm_ipn.intel.com> writes:
>> It would take something like 1 Ampere to kill someone. ...
>When I was in Electrical Engineering school, I was told that 70
>milliamps was enough.

I had a look into another safety guide and it says 200mA. I had someone 
here arguing with me that current won't kill but voltage do. Good luck 
to him.

>From: nguyenh at nosc_mil (Hoa G. Nguyen)
>Date: Fri, 8 Mar 96 09:23:03 PST
>Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #310
>Now here you get confusing again!  The ONLY reason the current is ever low
>when flowing through your body MUST be due to the drop in voltage!  Remember
>                       Current = Voltage / Resistance
>and your body resistance isn't changing!  To have a low body current
>requires you to go back to case (a).

I must admit that I was really getting confused with Kirchoff Law for a while, 
forgetting about the Ohms Law. Having spent 8 years in software is no excuse for
me :-( Since your *case (a)* is not applicable to utility supply at home, I 
would say that the reason low current flow is because body resistance to ground 
is very high. For 240V main and body resistance to ground of say 1MegaOhms, the 
current is 0.24mA enough to give you a good shock. If you are wet from playing 
with fish tank, the resistance to ground may go very low and that would be 
really dangerous and may be fatal. Now my Disclaimer: To get body resistance to 
ground of 1MOhms or higher would require you to wear good insulating footwear 
and dry skin.

>of a ground path!  And you'd better hope it's a very quick-acting fuse!  Or
>have a Ground-Fault-Interupt in the circuit (I do).

What is that Ground-Fault-Interrupt? Is it the same as ELCB (Earth Leakage 
Circuit Breaker). Over here it is required by law for every home to have it.

The better way is to ground the water with a wire and hook it to ELCB or 
your GFI(?). Any current leakage to the water would immediately trip the 
breaker. Anyone know of any side-effect to the water here?

>Okay, NOW let's get back to plants.

I'm talking about safety with fish tank now :-) Did someone just cried 



From: RTalukdar at mail_utexas.edu (Roni Talukdar)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 20:15:47 -0600
Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #318

>Although I have access to newsgroups, I have been unable to find 
>rec.aquaria.plants . I have found two other sub-groups listed under rec 
>aquaria. Is this newsgroup up and running yet? Are you folks receiving 

I think the newsgroup is rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants.  You can also go to
rec.aquaria and access the newsgroup by clicking on one of the messages
proclaiming the new hierarchy.  They are cross-posted in all the new groups.
I also will miss the civility and courtesy of this newsgroup.  At least here
fanatics who have nothing better to do but criticize others don't have access.

- -Roni


From: eis at alto1_altonet.com (Paul Nicholson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 18:42:21 -0800
Subject: Re: List Vs. Newsgroup

Shaji quoted this request,
>> I can access E-mail much more easily than news groups: for example, I read
>> the Digest on my E-mail at work (no Usenet, WWW or similar staff available),
>> and this helps me to cope with corporate life having brighter lunch breaks!

>If there is sufficient interest in continuing the mailing list, I'd really
>like to see someone else take over my job of keeping it running.

I've used Compuserve Navigator which allows offline reading/writing of
Compuserve forums, which are very similar to Internet Newsgroups. I'm using
Newswatcher on a Mac PowerBook. Can anyone reccomend any news monitoring
programs which facilitate off line retrieval and composition? If you know
of some, please post them in the digest for others to see.



From: Allen Sandifer <ibi007 at mail_connect.more.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 21:38:14 -0600
Subject: Re: List Vs. Newsgroup


>If there is sufficient interest in continuing the mailing list, I'd really
>like to see someone else take over my job of keeping it running.

I for one would like to see the list contiune. I have access to both the
list and newsgroups. The information obtained from the list is much more
vaulable than that of the newsgroups. Seems that the NGs have alot of cross
posting. I retain all the list for refference, this is much easier done here
than with NGs.

No matter what happens I want to *thank* Shaji for maintaining this list.

             \\  - - //
             (  @ @  )
        | Allen Sandifer              |                     
        | ibi007 at mail_connect.more.net|                                
        | ST.Louis, MO                |
           oooO   (   )
          (   )    ) /
           \ (    (_/  



From: Bryan <ots at oanet_com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 00:17:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Roots Growing...

- -The problem is that my hygro polysperma, hydrocotyle leucopetala, 
- -bacopa
- -carolinia, nomaphila sticta, and alternatheria rosaefolia have all 
- -developed what look like tiny white roots growing out of the stems and 
- -I don't like it. Do I have any options short of cutting off all these 
- -tiny roots by hand which is really not possible.  What is causing this? 
- -Other than this unsightly problem the plants listed above are growing 
- -like crazy.

When I first set up my plant tank (27g) hygro was growing like mad too
give them 3-5 months and see what happens.. In the mean time cut the 
hygro back with a ruthless hand. :

	ots at oanet_com


From: montrea at mbox_vol.it (Mark)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 09:04:34 +0100
Subject: Re: Newsgroups

>From: Pat Bowerman <bowerman at rog_ar.ispnet.com>
>Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 10:10:01 -0800
>Subject: Newsgroups
>     If this list is discontinued, I for one will greatly miss it. Even if I 
>can get the new newsgroup. This has a feel of friendliness and cooperation 
>that I haven't seen on the newsgroups. I greatly enjoy everyone's civility 
>and politeness and patience with newcomers. This can only help our hobby. The 
>language here has always been courteous and proper; Something that is not 
>always the case on a newsgroup.
>     Finally, I hope that I am not writing our own obituary. I understand 
>that this list must be a tremendous amount of work, but it also does a 
>tremendous amount of good. I have heard ideas here that I would not have 
>heard had I bought every plant book published. This list alone justifies my 
>internet subscription.

I feel I should voice my opinion in favour of the above.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Grech,
montrea at mbox_vol.it
Home Page - http://www.vol.it/HTML/HOMES/Markgpg.html


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