Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #123

Aquatic Plants Digest      Monday, 11 December 1995      Volume 01 : Number 

In this issue:

	Re: Siamensis Spotting in NJ!
	helpful hint on Laterite
	Thiel Laterite
	Real Or False SAEs in NJ?
	Re: "Green, minimum fiddle"
	Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #119

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From: ac554 at freenet_carleton.ca (David Whittaker)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:52:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Siamensis Spotting in NJ!

Adam Aronson says.....

>I purchased 3 Siamensis (yes, they are definitely the real thing, I 
>checked at the store in Baensch's Atlas) from The Pet Shanty on Route 22 
>in Scotch Plains (?? - or whatever town Bowcraft Amusement Park is in).  
>If you plan on buying some (they were $1.99 each or three for $4.50) 
>mention that you read of their availability on the internet, they'll be 
>happy to hear that!
>Bye bye algae!

I hate to spoil your Christmas but....
Baensch has been known to be wrong, and in this case, if it is Vol. 1,
English Edition, he is.

Don't feel bad. I haven't stopped drinking since I bought my three
"algae-eating sharks" last week. Maybe we could launch a class action
suit claiming that decisions taken due to misinformation in his Atlas
resulted in irreparable damage to the hobby and psychic trauma for
several unlucky aquatic gardeners.

- --



From: Veselis_Robert_A/mskcc_SCU at mskmail_mskcc.org
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 07:46:25 -0500
Subject: helpful hint on Laterite

Item Subject: Text_1
     Problem : how DO you get that messy laterite powder into an 
     established aquarium?
     Solution 1 : (not so good) buy granules and stick them in. Problem 
     with this : nice round Dupla K pellets very expensive. Other 
     "granules" end up having a lot of powder in them anyways -- so you 
     waste a lot.
     Solution 2 : Buy the powder! Get a syringe ( or similar implemet 
     (?turkey baster) - cut off the end, pour the laterite powder into 
     syringe (using a funnel). Hold end of full syring with your finger. 
     Put the syringe at the surface of your gravel -- remove finger -- push 
     syringe into gravel (near root zone) -- push plunger thereby injecting 
     Laterite powder into gravel -- remove syringe, and push surface gravel 
     into "hole". Voila - no mess !! I have done this a number of times 
     with a 10 cc syringe, and the water is a little cloudy for 6-12 hours, 
     but clears up quickly. Just last week, I was able to place 1 lb. of 
     Laterite powder in a 55 gal aquarium heavily planted aquarium in 30 
     Pelham NY


From: Veselis_Robert_A/mskcc_SCU at mskmail_mskcc.org
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 08:30:22 -0500
Subject: Thiel Laterite

Item Subject: Text_1
     Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 15:50:55 -0600 (CST) Subject: Thiel laterite
     I have used all three (Dupla, Thiel and Aq Pharmaceuticals) products 
     over the last 2 years. 
     Let me definitely say -- my plants didn't really grow until I used 
     laterite in some form. So be sure to use it!!
     I agree Dupla is very $$$. I have been pleased with Thiel laterite, 
     and I think I have come up with a way to get laterite powder into an 
     established aquarium (see my other post).
     I would be interested to hear from other members : Thiel recommends 1 
     lb per 125 gal. It seems that when I "replenish" my aquarium with the 
     recommended amount the following happens:
     ))plants start growing great in about 3-4 weeks after adding 
     additional laterite
     ))this lasts about 3 months (I am usually able to measure some iron 
     for about 2-4 weeks after new laterite)
     ))the laterite seems to "poop out" in 3-4 months (I can't measure iron 
     at this time, and use an iron supplement). plants no longer have a 
     "healthy glow" about them
     I just tried 1 lb. per 55 gal tank last week (3 months after 1/2 lb of 
     granules / powder). I looking forward to see how this works. NOTE: I 
     do NOT use an undergravel filter, and this may have something to do 
     with it.
Bob Veselis
Pelham Manor, NY, USA
veselisr at mskcc_org
71204.1653 at compuserv_com

who moved "oot" of the frozen north to the sunny south(?) and now catches zees 

     instead of zeds when I can.


From: Erik Olson <eriko at wrq_com>
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:33:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Real Or False SAEs in NJ?

> From: aaronson <aaronson at buttercup_cybernex.net>

> I purchased 3 Siamensis (yes, they are definitely the real thing, I 
> checked at the store in Baensch's Atlas) from The Pet Shanty on Route 22 

You might be disappointed.  Baensch is backwards!  i.e., it switches the 
true siamensis with the false one!

Just to add my 2 cents in with this one, I found 2-3 stores here in
Seattle selling "Thai Flying Foxes" again.  When little, they look very
much like the baby SAEs, so much that I went "woah!" when I passed by the
tank.  But they probably aren't them!  The "thai flying fox" I've raised
have turned out to be (Garra taeniata, based on Niel and Liisa's article). 

   - Erik

- ---
Erik D. Olson					         amazingly, at home
eriko at wrq_com


From: Charley Bay <charleyb at hpgrla_gr.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 8:59:35 MST
Subject: Re: "Green, minimum fiddle"

> PacoIII at aol_com wrote:
>  I think it everybody's dream is to have a lush aquarium with the minimum
> fiddle. [snip]  Maybe that's my problem, I worry to much.  I WANT GREEN, 

> having a problem getting enough Oxygen to my fish in the day and my 
> plants at night but POOF I dont have any CO2, Right?   Well how about 
> leaving the filters off during the day, Is that a good Idea or am I 
> just going to shot me self in the foot? Will the plants
> get the needed nutrients and circulation around there roots? Will the 
> plants get cold roots during the 10plus hours of no filtration?   
> I really NEEDED to spill out my heart on the I-way, So if
> someone can stop by and pick up my heart for my plants I would be in your
> debt.
>             sincerely, the worried violinist 

Wow.  You really ARE worried!  :-)

This might not help, and I hope I don't get flamed.  :-)
They're plants, and somehow, they grow all over the world
where the water never has the impossibly high CO2 
concentrations that come with CO2 injection.  

I have green, LOTS of green.  Any day now I'm going to
shamelessly post my surplus of plants that I don't know
what to do with.  I never mess with my tank, and have done
only one water change in the past four months <embarrassed
blush>.  I won't do another until March.  I have no algae 
problem whatsoever (a short run with brush algae, but now 
completely gone).  I never clean the glass.  I never check 
pH (anymore).  I never vacuum the gravel.  I don't have 
any CO2.  I remember to feed most days, but sometimes skip 
three or four.  The only thing I do (literally) is harvest 
plants and add makeup water.  (I do have a duckweed
problem, though:  OK, ERIC, I RELENT!  YOU WERE RIGHT!

It's a 180 gallon tetra-schooling tank with 3-5" of 
2mm sand-blasting gravel mixed with sphagnum peat and
vermiculite.  No circulation through the substrate at 
present, but fantastic root growth.  I have an overflow
to two 10-gallon sumps (settling tank only) where I
catch lots of community-bred fry (including neon tetras).  
I only have 1.22 watts of light per gallon, but a great 
forest of Alternanthera reineckii (starter plants from 
George:  Thanks, George!)

I tried to fertilize, but stopped two months ago because I
always got algae (not a lot, I fertilize about 1/10 what 
the label suggested).  Everything still grows great with 
no fertilizer, though.  I want to add CO2, but don't 
know if my lighting is adequate.  So I don't.  My next 
tank will be MH with CO2, though.

I have schools of tetras, platies, and barbs, seven
ottocinclus (haven't lost any), and three false
siamensis (lost one).  My fish are very healthy (which I 
attribute to the plants), and I'm keeping some difficult ones 
(like a school of pencilfish: haven't lost any in three 
months).  I estimate 100" of fish.

Literally, this tank is FANTASTIC.  I don't do anything.
Ever.  Literally.  Not an exaggeration.  With my busy 
schedule of late, that suits me very well.

Not to make flame bait, but I think larger tanks with
low bio-loads are awesome.  I'm running about twenty
tanks at present, and this 180 (my biggest tank) is
no effort whatsoever (while the little ones are a pain in 
the *@#%&!)  And yes, I do think this big tank is 
magazine-cover quality (my wife is sick of aquariums, but
even she agrees!).

So, take home message:  Don't stress.  Have fun with it.
Shaji made a comment that stuck with me several months ago:
When I asked about test kits and maintenance schedules,
he responded:  "That makes it too much like work to me
and less like gardening.  I like it to be more art than
science."  All of a sudden, I realized I don't HAVE to 
do ANYTHING!  It's all for enjoyment, and you can do great 
despite all the money you really want to spend on the 
outrageously priced aquarium hobby junk.   ;-)

- --charley                            Fort Collins, Colorado USA
charleyb at gr_hp.com	-or-	charley at agrostis_nrel.colostate.edu


From: "Carol Darnell" <carol at jupiter_biochem.missouri.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:02:04 -0600
Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #119

Karen, Thanks, and I think I'll follow your advice to the letter! Oh
Honey...<G> I actually think I can figure this out. Thanks also to Greg Tong,
Yes I can do this, I have to get money again, I'm still suffering the great
Discus/RO system IMPULSE. Hey, while I have Everyone here, I have been meaning

to report to all about my results after adding Dupla stuff to my main plant
tank (the Discus tank). UNBELIEVABLE is the word for the results. I added
Laterite, No UG heating, The Plant tabs at weekly water changes, (I change the

water 3 X/ week, but only add tabs 1 X/week), Duplagan at water changes, and
the daily drops when I remember to add them, more or less daily. E. Bleiry (I

really Mangled that) is now Flowering all aver the tank, the Apontogeton has 4

flower spikes, the Nyphea has floating leaves, the val is hanging in there, 
other sword (huge when I got it, I think it must be Brazilian? It kept growing

up out of the tank, I kept moving the lights up. but I finally cut all the
leaves off in hopes that it would send up shorter stems. I know it needs 
to photosynthesize, but I did it anyway. The tank just seems BALANCED. (Sorry)

I wanted to tell everyone who is thinking of using the Dupla regimen, it works

for me! I am working on changing the water from softened water to RO water, pH

is still around 7.4, temp is 82, no nitrates, I don't have a PO4 kit, DIY
CO2/yeast. I forget what the last concentration from the charts (of CO2) was.

It finally looks GOOD.

- -- 
Carol Darnell


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