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Re: [APD] Excess ferts, fish load and EI

Apparently Scott erred by using too few words rather than too many words in
his reply.  :-)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Thomas Barr <tcbiii at yahoo_com>
Date: Nov 30, 2006 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [APD] Excess ferts, fish load and EI
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com

I would always try to err on the
> side of possibly too much ferts rather than too little. The
> "much" side is much more forgiv ing than the "little" side.
> sh

I see folks say this but is there any truth to this?
Stop with the fear and belief system approaches.
Instead, test it and see!

Put another way, is adding too little more dangerous than adding
too much? How much is too much? How much is too little?

Obviously this depends on a growth rate for the tank.
That starts with a light intensity, moderate to lower ends of
lighting offer the widest range at the lower end and upper ends.
Higher light reduces the wiggle room on both sides.

I've added supposedly what most reasonable folks might ascribe
as too much, I've found no such evidence that excess nutrients
other than NH4 can cause issues for fish or algae.

I've added each nutrient to high levels using inorganic salts.
Fish are fine until you get to 120-160ppm NO3 ranges.
Shrimp died then, but not one fish did.
That's out of 2000 fish also. No small number.

So why do we keep saying and suggesting to error on the low end?
Does this really help plants?
Help fish?
Why are there issues to start with?
Generally, not enough of something, CO2, NO3, K, etc..not
excesses........so why do folks say this still?

A water change can quickly reduce any build up.
Larger water changes and more frequent ones will resolve the
dosing errors and provide a more accurate and stable range of

If I saw dead fish at 60ppm of NO3, etc, then I'd say there
would be good reason, but I'm just not seeing the problem when I
do these test on excess levels using ferts.

If someone has high fish loading and an increase of NO3's in a
fully planted tank without adding KNO3, they have too many fish.
This implies that they have more NH4 than the plants can handle
since only bacteria will produce the NO3 and it also implies
that the plants are also not using all the NO3 available and

Adding CO2, ferts such as K+, traces etc can greatly enhance
plant growth rates..........so that the plants can use all the
NH4 waste from the fish easily and using CO2 allows frequent
water changes as well to mitigate the N build up issue.

Still, KNO3 is not the same adding more fish to supply N.
Many seem to enjoy linking them as equals, they are not.

Tom Barr


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