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> http://www.cam.org/~tomlins/comments.html
> The phosphate-prompts-algae thinking was dispelled by those
> that tried phosphate as a way to generate algae. Tom B was
> certainly leading the way while others said, "Huh?" and "Can't
> be." 

Wasn't the first time and will not be the last time.

But I think most of us know now that phosphate was not
> and probably never shall be an automatic generator of algae in
> aquaria -- although conventional wisdom still holds that
> phosphates can be naughty in lakes.

Scott, Adding PO4 to a lake with plants(30% or more SAV) will
NOT produce algae, it will produce more plants. Same for rivers
with plants. If there are no plants for whatever reason,
something else will grow there: algae.
Same for NO3 or other nutrients(NH4 maybe not).

This was shown by a group of limnologist at UF back in the mid
1980's(ref below). Florida has 7800 lakes over 4 hectares and
many have plants, are shallow, subtropical temps, never freeze
over the winter and have a wide range of nutrient conditions.
Lakes in Demark, the UK, upstate New York etc are hardly
applicable to our own......
Old news actually. I've given the more recent ref's here but one
from over 20 years ago.

Hoyer, M.V., C.A. Horsburgh, D.E. Canfield, Jr. and R.W.
Bachmann. 2005. Lake level and trophic state variables among a
population of shallow Florida lakes and within individual lakes.
Can. J. Fish. Aquat. Sci. 62: :2760-2769. PDF.

Bachmann, R.W., MV Hoyer and DE Canfield, Jr. 2004. Aquatic
plants and nutrients in Florida lakes. Aquatics: 26(3)4-11. PDF

Bachmann, R.W., C.A. Horsburgh, MV Hoyer, L.K.Mataraza and DE
Canfield, Jr. 2002. Relations between trophic state indicators
and plant biomass in Florida lakes. Hydrobiol. 470:219-234  PDF


Canfield, D.E., Jr., K.A. Langeland, M.J. Maceina, W.T. Haller,
J.V. Shireman, and J.R. Jones. 1983. Trophic state
classification of lakes with aquatic macrophytes. Canadian
Journal of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences 40:1713-1718. 

So even that idea is not true.........

But it does cause ecological issues in the
Evergaldes...........which is adapted to extremely low PO4
levels.........(0.010ppm or less)

So it depends on the system, but if we are to generalize, or ask
any of these researchers, the lakes that have 30-50%
SAV(submersed aquatic vegetation), adding PO4 to a limited lake
will produce more weeds, not algae. 

 Unless ones tapwater is
> already handsomely laced with orthophosphates, one would be
> prudent to add orthophosphates to ones PMDD, or at least to
> the aquarium when dosing PMDD.

Won't food waste provide enough? That was the prevailing notion
also.........still is in some circles.
 So I just call what I do fertilizing. And
> yes, the fertilizing includes adding ample amounts of
> phosphate.

Using CMS, using an all in one liquid seems to be the fert part
of it (for using the PMDD system), although you could say the
PO4 limiting part, the Fe at 0.1ppm, etc is part of it as well
or adding Macro's. 
> I have been thinking about calling what I do, bioproduction
> reactor dosing or some such thing -- it might make me feel
> better when I spend what it costs for the 5 liter size Tropica
> bottle. ;-)
> sh 

Maybe we need to buy 55gal barrles:)

Tom Barr


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