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[APD] Plant ID
Stores are forced to sell terrestial plants that will do relatively well in submerged conditions; i.e. maintain themselves alive under submerged conditions because of the practice people have to dump them into the environment once they cannot or will not care for them anymore - the former leads to fuel the "invasive status" threat since most of the commercial aquarium plants preferred are not endemic to the US.
I guess a bit of planned obsolescence is figured into the equation of Dracaenas, Spathyphyllum, among others, as SAV.
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 30, Issue 66 (Thomas Barr)
2. Plant ID (Joel Fizette)
3. Re: Plant ID (Vaughn Hopkins)
4. Re: Plant ID (Terry Barber)
5. Re: Plant ID (Joel Fizette)
6. Re: Don't Drink Distilled Water [SAFETY] (was "Storing
largeamounts of RO water") (Terry Barber)
7. Re: Plant ID (Terry Barber)
8. Re: growing Tonia (Dave Wilson)
9. Re: growing Tonia (william ruyle)
10. Re: growing Tonia (Dave Wilson)
11. Re: Don't Drink Distilled Water [SAFETY] (was "Storing large
amounts of RO water") (Susan Aufieri)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:29:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Thomas Barr
Subject: Re: [APD] Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 30, Issue 66
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
"It's not uncommon, especially among endurance
athletes. For example, water intoxication was
reported in 18% of marathon runners and in 29% of
the finishers in a Hawaiian Ironman Triathlon in
studies published around 2000 in the _Annals_of_
_Internal_Medicine_ and in _Medicine_&_Science_in_
_Sports_&_Exercise_ respectively (not exactly
junk science rags)."
Well, I can attest to this doing lots of cycling and running. I
did 80 miles yesterday through the hills on my road bike.
Gobbled at turkey's, mooed at cows, winked at the gals, curse at
by motorist. That's why we crazy bikers/runners etc drink sport
drinks with simple sugars and salt.
I need about 20-30oz per 20 miles in 90F high RH, I only need
1/2 that when it's 60F and low RH. Powerbars, protein drinks
etc. Humm yum:)
But those folks are not going to have any better results
drinking tap water vs RO, they need a lot more salt, the
NaCl/KCL type mostly, not the KH/GH type which concerns us.
And few folks are riding 80 miles nor running marathons nor
doing trialthalon here, that is a fraction of precent and these
folks know what they need to eat to perform well already.
I can add the salt from a bottle of gatorade, or the tap, or
distilled + gatorade.
What matters is getting enough salt if you have a high use for
it, and the other flip side is getting rid of the excess salt if
you eat foods high in salt.
Then the distilled water would help........
Regards,
Tom Barr
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:18:53 -0800
From: "Joel Fizette"
Subject: [APD] Plant ID
To: "aquatic plants digest"
I bought some plants at petco a couple a weeks ago and they didn't have any
identification cards of any sort which was kind of anonying. While I've had
no problem identifying most of them, I can't seem to find this one in any
books or sites online. Can anyone tell me what this is?
http://sentientpuppet.com/imagehost/elplanto.jpg
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:48:11 -0800
From: Vaughn Hopkins
Subject: Re: [APD] Plant ID
To: aquatic plants digest
I don't know what it is, but it sure does look like a terrestrial
plant, a house plant, and not an aquatic plant. Pet stores are
notorious for selling such plants as aquatic plants.
Vaughn H.
On Sunday, February 26, 2006, at 05:18 PM, Joel Fizette wrote:
> I bought some plants at petco a couple a weeks ago and they didn't
> have any
> identification cards of any sort which was kind of anonying. While
> I've had
> no problem identifying most of them, I can't seem to find this one in
> any
> books or sites online. Can anyone tell me what this is?
> http://sentientpuppet.com/imagehost/elplanto.jpg
> _______________________________________________
> Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 21:05:23 -0500
From: "Terry Barber"
Subject: Re: [APD] Plant ID
To: "aquatic plants digest"
On the right is "mondo grass". This is not an aquatic plant and will just
rot away after awhile in your tank. On the left, you may have a sword plant
which is aquatic. It will like having a fertilizer tab placed near the
base. The other plant, I do not recognize. Hope this helps.
TerryB
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:21:45 -0800
From: "Joel Fizette"
Subject: Re: [APD] Plant ID
To: "aquatic plants digest"
ok thanks about the mondo grass... good to know but the plant in the middle
has grown quite a bit since I got it. It was in water when I bought it
although so was the mondo grass I guess but it hasn't grown at all... I
bought a couple of those non-aquatic plants on accident before. Namely a
Dracaena sanderiana which was in one of those tubes labeled "Aqua plants" I
was pretty pissed off about that and got my money back. How can it be legal
for them to sell plants labeled as aquatic plants when they aren't? isn't
that false advertisement? The girl acted like I was stupid when I returned
the Dracaena and didn't believe that it was a non-aquatic plant.
On 2/26/06, Terry Barber wrote:
>
> On the right is "mondo grass". This is not an aquatic plant and will just
> rot away after awhile in your tank. On the left, you may have a sword
> plant
> which is aquatic. It will like having a fertilizer tab placed near the
> base. The other plant, I do not recognize. Hope this helps.
>
> TerryB
>
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> Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 21:22:51 -0500
From: "Terry Barber"
Subject: Re: [APD] Don't Drink Distilled Water [SAFETY] (was "Storing
largeamounts of RO water")
To: "aquatic plants digest"
Wow I spaketh !
It's ok to drink purified water - RO or Distilled. But you have heard a
lot about that today already. ;)
> Terry spaketh:
>
> RO water isn't as big a health risk as distilled,
> because the RO filtration only removes the "bigger"
> stuff (like sodium). But, it's still true that RO
> water pulls salts and other stuff out of your system
> because we're still talking about osmosis across
> the gradient in the water, and your body.
>
Sodium Ions are pretty small, Potassium and Chloride are smaller and will
pass to some degree through and RO membrane but no all of them in the water
(due to effect of concentration gradients at the membrane boundary layer).
All other things in the water will not pass the RO membrane, including
Calcium ion.
http://sky.bsd.uchicago.edu/lcy_ref/synap/resting.html
And just for grins, here is a pretty cool paper that talks about ion
transport in living cells.
Have a great week.
TerryB
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 21:35:19 -0500
From: "Terry Barber"
Subject: Re: [APD] Plant ID
To: "aquatic plants digest"
Hi Joel,
Well here comes my very biased and pessimistic answer. When it comes to the
big box pet food stores, forget about them having much of a clue about
anything. Unfortunately they are pretty much the only game in town here and
I could fill a book with the idiocy I deal with nearly every time I go into
one of these stores. My latest rant was (last week) about the condition
of about 60 dead and dying bettas in their little cups.
I do buy stem plants from them with little problem. Always be suspicious
of the plants in rock wool pots. After awhile, you will learn more about
aquatic plants and be able to spot the fakes.
Corporate just sends the stuff and the stores just put it out for sale. My
best recommendation is to just ask for a refund. You could also plant it
outside where it will thrive and keep your blood pressure low - I use mondo
grass (Ophiopogon japonicus) in part of my yard to replace regular grass
(fescue won't grow well in shade - mondo does). LOL.
Best of Luck.
TerryB
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:51:42 +0930
From: Dave Wilson
Subject: Re: [APD] growing Tonia
To: Aquatic Plants Mailing List
There is a nice young chap in Melbourne who can grow beautiful Tonina and
plenty of it. I have been asking him lots of questions and I don?t think
he has heard of those commercial potting soils mentioned previously. He
says as long as the pH is below neutral and there is some well weathered cow
shit and peat (not too much, I don't know how much is not too much) in the
soil it will be OK. He uses CO2 for pH control.
Is it possible that Tonina could be one of those plants like Eriocaulon
setaceum that takes some or all of its carbon from the substrate.
Cheers
Dave
On 27/2/06 5:30 AM, "cS" wrote:
>> Well, I have grown Tonia at higher rates than these other folks using
> flourite alone. So........I really do not keep secrets...and folks
> have heard what I do, the plants grow well.
>
> This is the problem Tom. You seem to be the ONLY one to be able to
> grow it "well" without using Aquasoil/Florabase. Yes, I know your
> secrets: good light, CO2 mist, and adequate nutrients. But for the
> rest of us, and I do mean that literally, the result has yet to be
> duplicated.
>
> But surely you have been at this for much longer than I have and you
> frequent more forums in more countries than I ever hope to. Would you
> point me to an instance in which someone, beside yourself, who noted
> that s/he was able to grow these species without the aid of Aquasoil
> or Florabase?
>
>> They do grow a little better in ADA soil, but so what? It's only a
> few plant species that seem to do better, much more an exception.
>
> No Tom. Not "a little". A LOT. The difference is like night and
> day. Maybe I am just an awful gardener but it becomes suspicious when
> I have yet to come across anyone else who can make the same claim as
> you do. If anyone reading this who is successful at growing this
> species well without using Aquasoil/Florabase, then please speak up.
>
> - cS -
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 23:12:38 -0600
From: "william ruyle"
Subject: Re: [APD] growing Tonia
To: "aquatic plants digest"
Dave, fascinating post. Just wondering if bull dung could be
substituted for the cow dung, as long as it is weathered--just
curious, is all;-) As to the Eriocaulon, I planted it in peat and
sand and watched it die almost at a gaze, without CO2 enrichment.
A friend of mine did very well with Eriocaulon setaceum using
Florabase and CO2 injection, and of course, good lighting.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: aquatic-plants-bounces+inquartata=comcast_net at actwin.com
[mailto:aquatic-plants-bounces+inquartata=comcast_net at actwin.com]On
Behalf Of Dave Wilson
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:22 PM
To: Aquatic Plants Mailing List
Subject: Re: [APD] growing Tonia
There is a nice young chap in Melbourne who can grow beautiful Tonina and
plenty of it. I have been asking him lots of questions and I don?t think
he has heard of those commercial potting soils mentioned previously. He
says as long as the pH is below neutral and there is some well weathered cow
shit and peat (not too much, I don't know how much is not too much) in the
soil it will be OK. He uses CO2 for pH control.
Is it possible that Tonina could be one of those plants like Eriocaulon
setaceum that takes some or all of its carbon from the substrate.
Cheers
Dave
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:35:10 +0930
From: Dave Wilson
Subject: Re: [APD] growing Tonia
To: Aquatic Plants Mailing List
Probably doesn?t matter who done the dung as long it was an old ungulate
that pooped out well weathered stuff, desert ungulates do old well dried
dung. :-)
I have trouble growing tonina. I just got some more to try.
Have been hanging around the cattle export yards at Humpty Doo. Twenty
dollars will get you a trailer load of well weathered cattle droppings.
Might not be too good for some plants but makes others go really well.
I also have a pack of small dinosaurs out there in the back paddock that
poop out dinosaur dung. There are pictures of my dinosaurs here
http://www.australianrainbowfish.com/aquagreen/html/dino_dung.htm
Cheers
Dave
On 27/2/06 2:42 PM, "william ruyle" wrote:
> Dave, fascinating post. Just wondering if bull dung could be
> substituted for the cow dung, as long as it is weathered--just
> curious, is all;-)
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:43:30 -0500
From: Susan Aufieri
Subject: Re: [APD] Don't Drink Distilled Water [SAFETY] (was "Storing
large amounts of RO water")
To: APD
Distilled water isn't good for you? Really?
I can think of no more fragile of a human than one who's just
received months of chemo and a bone marrow/stem cell transplant. My
sister in law is one of those people. What do those oncologists want
her drinking? Distilled water for about a year until her immune
system fully forms.
Susan
On Feb 26, 2006, at 7:20 PM, aquatic-plants-request at actwin_com wrote:
Charley writes:
>> * Distilled water isn't good for you, although if
>> your tap water has lead, parasites, and carcinogens,
>> you can make a choice
>
Jerry responds:
> I still have not seen an suggestion of a plausible reason why
> distilled
> water would be bad for you.
------------------------------
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End of Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 30, Issue 68
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