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[APD] Fish kill
No more problems everybody was where they belonged this morning. One of the
comments was to hook the co2 regulator to a timer. I tried that in the
beginning, and that was a total disaster as I killed a bunch of fish because
of the drastic ph change. Seems if you don't have semi hard water the ph
changes very rapidly as the tank was going from 6.9 during the day to 7.6 by
next morning after lights out. In an 8 hour period the fish could not handle
that much change. Went back to the ph controller handling the whole CO2
level and that has worked fine for 6 months.
On the circulation I probably have overkill. I run two Eheim 2028 at 320
gallons per hour each and 2 power heads at 150 gallons per hour on an under
gravel filter. I have plenty of water movement. In fact I thought I would
have problems with keeping the CO2 in the water but so far running it
through the Eheim has not been a problem. I alternate cleaning out the
canisters ever three months. Should I up the rate?
Plan of action to me would be lower the tank temperature to 75 degrees and
cut back a little on the level of CO2 in the water. This should increase the
O2 level in the tank. KH dropped with the water change yesterday from 130 to
90 or 7.28 to 5.04 at a ph of 7.0. That dropped co2 from 23 ppm to 15 ppm.
Maybe this would be a better range with the fish load I have.
Thanks for all your input.
Joe Wunsch
Macon, GA 31210
email: wunsch4 at tricot_mgacoxmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: aquatic-plants-bounces+wunsch4=tricot_mgacoxmail.com at actwin.com
[mailto:aquatic-plants-bounces+wunsch4=tricot_mgacoxmail.com at actwin.com] On
Behalf Of aquatic-plants-request at actwin_com
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:33 AM
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
Subject: Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 29, Issue 8
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Today's Topics:
1. Planted tank in a room with wood flooring (xicotenco)
2. Re: Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7 (Thomas Barr)
3. Re: Planted tank in a room with wood flooring (Vaughn Hopkins)
4. Re: Fish Kill (Raj)
5. Air bubbling (Stuart Halliday)
6. Re: Low O2 (Stuart Halliday)
7. Re: Low O2 (Philippe Lemaire (TLI))
8. Re: Air bubbling (Raj)
9. Re: Air bubbling (S. Hieber)
10. Re: Low O2 (S. Hieber)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 17:51:44 -0800 (PST)
From: xicotenco <xicotenco at yahoo_com>
Subject: [APD] Planted tank in a room with wood flooring
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
Planted tank in a room with bamboo flooring
Good day and happy new year to you all,
I'm planning to place a 90 Glls aquarium in my
living room with an all glass pine stand,
I had placed strips of felt pads under need the
stand to avoid scratching the floor surface, but
now I'm wondering what to do besides having a towel
handy to protect the floor from inevitable water
spills.
Those anybody there has experience to with large
aquariums placed in wood floors to share.
Thanks and Kind Regards
Mario
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:13:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Thomas Barr <tcbiii at yahoo_com>
Subject: Re: [APD] Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
"1) Tap water kills YES KILLS!!!!!!!!! terrestrial plants. I
have killed ferns, houseplants, succulents/cacti/aloe, before I
started buying RO water to use for them. Now my houseplants
thrive on RO water."
Did you add dechlorinator to them water before?
All the tap has is high KH and sodium.
the sodium is the only thing that is troubling really.
" 3) My water tastes and smells like it would kill a human!!!
LOL"
So drink the RO water.
"1) Can someone explain to me whether this is OK for planted
tanks?"
Depends on the plants you want to keep, many do well up to about 5 ppt
salinity.
" My local petshop "wisewoman" says no, and tries to sell me
more RO water for 35 cents/gallon.
2) Do I need to buy my own RO filter?"
You can, I would do that before buying water from her.
" 3) What type of RO filter do I need?"
See ebay for pricing and models, most tfc's and DI's will work.
You can get a 24 GPD to 100 GPD model there.
" 4) Can I pass my tap water over something else, like crushed
coral calcium or something, to get my water OK for aquarium
plants without buying an RO filter?"
Well, anything that will selectivity remove sodium will work , then you
can avoid RO.
DI likely will work.
" 5) Does anyone have a recommendation for a portable,
easy-to-install RO filter for a student-on-the-move housed in a rental
property? I can't go putting holes in the pipe (at least until I
have my rental deposit back!!! ROFL)"
Most simply connect to the shower head, kitchen sink, or garden hose etc.
Regards,
Tom Barr
www.BarrReport.com
---------------------------------
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Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:21:25 -0800
From: Vaughn Hopkins <hoppycalif at yahoo_com>
Subject: Re: [APD] Planted tank in a room with wood flooring
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
When I installed my 120 gallon tank in my family room, with an oak
floor, I planned ahead to eliminate the possibility of big water
spills. I put in hard plumbing and valves to make water changing spill
free. I made my stand so the tank sat in a recess that was relatively
water tight, with a drain hole in the middle and a tube from there to a
sump under the tank, which had a drain hose permanently attached to
drain outdoors. The result was that in about 4 years with that tank I
never had more than drops of water spill on the floor. The sump drain
worked the only time I had an under the tank leak in the filter
plumbing. It was well worth the effort.
Vaughn H.
On Thursday, January 5, 2006, at 05:51 PM, xicotenco wrote:
> Planted tank in a room with bamboo flooring
>
> Good day and happy new year to you all,
>
> I'm planning to place a 90 Glls aquarium in my
> living room with an all glass pine stand,
> I had placed strips of felt pads under need the
> stand to avoid scratching the floor surface, but
> now I'm wondering what to do besides having a towel
> handy to protect the floor from inevitable water
> spills.
>
> Those anybody there has experience to with large
> aquariums placed in wood floors to share.
>
> Thanks and Kind Regards
> Mario
>
>
>
> __________________________________________
> Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about.
> Just $16.99/mo. or less.
> dsl.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 10:15:24 +0530
From: Raj <ggrk at blr_vsnl.net.in>
Subject: Re: [APD] Fish Kill
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
>barbs, rasbora, angels. Tank is heavily planted with Amazon swords, large
>leaf hydro, crypts, and I use some hornwort to control algae, as it seems
to
>suck up the extra nutrients. Plants are very healthy, fish have had no
>problems. I use the PMDD every other day. This morning tank had 3 dead
tiger
>barbs and the rest of fish were at the top gasping. Why all of a sudden the
>lack of oxygen?
>
>Joe Wunsch
Joe,
The demand for O2 must have gone up. Organic detritus takes up O2
especially if you had some algae which died off..
Reducing the fish load is one option.
I use a timer to switch on an aerator 3-4 hours after sunset and
again
some hours later. You loose some Co2 and your baseline pH will go up and you
may need to adjust accordingly. You can use a simple airstone and adjust its
submersion depth for Co2 loss. The fish should have at least 3-4 mg/L of
dissolved O2.
When fish are desperately gasping DO is 1-2 mg/L, below that they
are so stressed that opportunist diseases like Ich show up.
Regards
--
Raj, vu2zap
Bangalore, South India.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 09:14:17 +0000
From: Stuart Halliday <stuart at stuarthalliday_com>
Subject: [APD] Air bubbling
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
I believe Philippe Lemaire (TLI) wrote this email section below:
> Same phenomenon here : too many plants depletes O2 during the night.
> I had to increase air bubbling...
How can you be sure it's that?
I've seen lots of pictures of superb aquariums with a huge number of plants
and they have fish too.
I've found that air bubbling made no difference. But increasing the water
surface movement makes a huge difference.
Of course over stocking with fish doesn't help either.... ;-)
--
Stuart Halliday
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 09:16:33 +0000
From: Stuart Halliday <stuart at stuarthalliday_com>
Subject: Re: [APD] Low O2
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
I believe Thomas Barr wrote this email section below:
> Try having some decent surface movement and you will stop stressing the
> fish with low O2.
Nice to be confirmed by the experts. ;-)
--
Stuart Halliday
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 10:50:03 +0100
From: "Philippe Lemaire \(TLI\)" <ph_lemaire at tiscalinet.be>
Subject: Re: [APD] Low O2
To: "aquatic plants digest" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
Thomas Barr wrote:
> >Same phenomenon here : too many plants depletes O2 during the night.
>> I had to increase air bubbling...
>> Philippe
>
>
> No no no!
> You folks have this entirely wrong, plants have extremely low respiration
rates, they
> are not
> depelting the O2, fish and bacteria can and do..........but the reason
plant people
> have trouble
> with low O2 in the early AM prior to the lights coming on has a GREAT DEAL
to do with
> your
> surface movement.
>
> If you have good pearling during the day, and relatively reasonable
bioload, you
> should not dip
> below roughly 90%, my tanks have been at 95% to 100% by morning. I have
high O2 most
> of the 24
> hour peroid, perhaps 4-6 hours are lower. You will never have low O2
levels with a
> wet/dry also.
>
> So poor plant growth can cause a decline in the O2(via a decline in
production of
> O2), but also
> too little surface movement.
>
> You can easily adjust the spray bars, and other flow equipment.
>
> Plants can and do store O2 in their aeryhenchma and vacuoles.
> Generally this is enough to supply the nighttime requirements alone.
>
> Your fish will die long before the plants are limited in terms of O2. O2
is a
> critical electron
> acceptor in wetlands, the measurements of O2 during the day/night cycles
have been
> studied well.
>
> Try having some decent surface movement and you will stop stressing the
fish with low
> O2.
>
> I also do not suggest adding CO2 at night, pH controllers can be shut off
at night by
> simply
> plugging them into the lighting timer.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Barr
>
Thanks !
I'm afraid I have no surface movement for the spray bar is under the surface
!
But why is air bubbling worst than raising the spray bar out of the water ?
(Let suppose bubbling is nice to look at)
Philippe
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 15:41:35 +0530
From: Raj <ggrk at blr_vsnl.net.in>
Subject: Re: [APD] Air bubbling
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
>I've found that air bubbling made no difference. But increasing the
>water surface movement makes a huge difference.
I have tested this with a dissolved O2 meter. In my 50 gal.
the DO levels rise from 2-3 to 6 mg/L in about one hour with one 1"
air stone. I don't think the bubbles themselves make much difference
but the surface agitation does the job.
A test could be done normally and then another by trapping
the air from an air stone below the surface and then comparing the
effect of the two setups.
Regards
--
Raj, vu2zap
Bangalore, South India.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 05:20:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
Subject: Re: [APD] Air bubbling
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
Oh yes, one of the oldest and most persistent myths in the hobby is that an
air stone imparts O2 to water largely by diffusing directly from the bubbles
to the water. Actually, the main value of an air stone is the water movement
it creates, not O2 in the bubbles being added directly to the water. So a
small powerhead can get you much more water movement, usually for no more
cost.
The main advantage of air pumps is that you can set up a huge shelf-load of
aquaria with easy to clean sponge filters running off a single large pump
and get them operating for relatively low cost -- great for fish shows and
large scale fish breeders.
I think their application to planted aquaria is mainly a holdover from
fish-only tanks and the pre-powerhead days of metal frame aquaria. What I
mean is, they've been around for years but suffice only as ersatz water
movers except in particular situations. You want decent water movement
during the day as well as at night in a planted aquarium and a small power
head, or flow from a filter, can be used much more effectively than using a
bubbler.
Not that you can't get some effect from air pumps and air stones but they
are very, uh, "old-school" now that the aquarium hobby has discovered
economical, small electric water pumps ;-) .
Scott H.
* * * * * * * * * * * The 6th Annual AGA Aquascaping Contest entries are on
display: http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org As a service to the community
the AGA has opened forums: http://forum.aquatic-gardeners.org/
----- Original Message ----
From: Raj <ggrk at blr_vsnl.net.in>
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 5:11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [APD] Air bubbling
>I've found that air bubbling made no difference. But increasing the
>water surface movement makes a huge difference.
I have tested this with a dissolved O2 meter. In my 50 gal.
the DO levels rise from 2-3 to 6 mg/L in about one hour with one 1"
air stone. I don't think the bubbles themselves make much difference
but the surface agitation does the job.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 05:32:56 -0800 (PST)
From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
Subject: Re: [APD] Low O2
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
You don't need to raise a so-called spray bar so that it literally sprays
water. The rule of thumb is to avoid turbulence but don't avoid flow.
Setting the bar so the output is just below the surface should be adequate
for most situations. If you're not adding CO2, the surface turbulence is not
a factor, so in that case, you can go ahead and spray all you want, although
it usually isn't necessary. In fact, a small water pump and a spray bar can
create tremdously more turbulence than an air pump and bubbler-- if
turbulence is what you are after.
Bubbling isn't inherently a worse form of turbulence, just a generally
unnecessary form and not a very effecient way to move water around.
Bubbles have long been associated with the visual experience of a aquaria --
not because one finds commonly find sendless streams of bubbles wherever one
finds fish and aquatic plants, but because air pumps and bubblers have been
sold to aquarists for so many years, whether they have any practical use for
them or not.
Some find the appearance of bubble streams as unnatural and hokey as burping
clams and treasure chests. Those folks should and certainly can avoid air
pumps without harm. Some folks find bubble streams attractive and even
effective "alpha wave" generators. The hobby should be fun; tailor your
involvement to suit. If like bubbles, then blow ;-)
sh
* * * * * * * * * * * The 6th Annual AGA Aquascaping Contest entries are on
display: http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org As a service to the community
the AGA has opened forums: http://forum.aquatic-gardeners.org/
----- Original Message ----
From: Philippe Lemaire (TLI) <ph_lemaire at tiscalinet.be>
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:50:03 AM
Subject: Re: [APD] Low O2
. . . But why is air bubbling worst than raising the spray bar out of the
water ?
------------------------------
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