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Re: [APD] aeration & a planted tank

I ahve a couple of comments.

Unless you are injecting CO2 in the water, the amount of
CO2 in the water is negligible. Enough to grow many diff
kinds of plants, but still only a few ppm. Not enough to
make the water chemistry extreme in any direction. In fact,
it's probably close to being within the margin of error
when using pH and KH test and the CO2/KH/pH table.

In a non-CO2 injected tank, CO2 is not going to make fish
gasp. And even in an injected tank, the CO2 is not
displacing O2 such that your fish will gasp. The point Raj
had been making, as I understood it, was that the net
consumption of O2 by plants in darkness could sometimes be
enough to deplete O2 levels to "gasping" levels over the
course of an evening. And Raj, as I understood, was
suggesting this happens in non-CO2 injected tanks -- in
CO2-injected tanks, the much more plentiful production of
O2 by the plants during the daytime leaves plenty of O2 in
the water during the night, despite some depletion due to
plants being net consumers in the evening. That was the
only invovlement of CO2.

A large filter won't necessarily keep things more constant
and balanced. As long as the fish poop, old food, plant
detritus, and other "wastes" are in the filter, they are
still in the water system. Having a larger filter can mean
allowing more of the stuff to accumulate in the water
system until one cleans the filter. If mulm accumulates in
the filter, then it's not all being converted, say, to

Of course, how often depends on fish load, amount of
plants, etc. But a large, really loaded filter can be
producing a lot of nitrates, much or most of which
disappears when you clean the filter. Cleaning a smaller
filter more often than a larger filter can proved for
greater cosntancy if not greater convenience.

--- Nicolas Munro <nmunro at qld_yokogawa.com.au> wrote:

> Ok, my turn to blog.
> I run a NON-CO2 set-up. My plants are doing ok and whilst
> I don't want 
> them to grow really fast cause I don't like having to do
> maintenance 
> ttoo often I have noticed that fertilisers ie Seachem
> Flourish 
> (AU$20ish) and Seachem Iron ($20ish) are necessary for my
> tanks well 
> being, I mean if I don't use them then they plants start
> to die.
> I did some experiments with DIY CO2 but decided for the
> amount of 
> maintenance and the associated cost of Yeast (couple
> bucks) and sugar 
> (couple bucks) it wasn't worth it for my 300 gal tank. 
> If I went for a 
> pressurised CO2 kit costing me Australian$300 - $550 the
> refill cost was 
> about $20/quarter year or if I wanted to do it the other
> way and make my 
> own pressurised CO2 I could pay AU$100 ish and get a
> refill which would 
> last me maybe 2 years plus get a needle valve for $80 and
> maybe a 
> regulator for $150ish.
> But again maintenance was a problem and a danger of
> pressurised gas 
> around my 3yr old daughter / both for her and the fish
> dying of CO2.
> The liquid ferts cost about $40 combined per quarter
> which is probably 
> the cheapest easiest set-up.  Dump them in the tank at
> feeding time 
> twice a week or if you want to be slacker once a week.
> Again my plants are doing ok the stuff like duckweed etc
> are doing too 
> good for my likening.
> Fish gasping:
> Well I've noticed my tank naturally hovers around 7.4pH
> due to me 
> replacing 10% - 60% water once or twice a fortnight,
> generally favouring 
> 30% cause that's how long it takes me to syphpen the
> bottom of my tank 
> clean most weekends.
> If the water goes above 8.4pH my fish head for the
> surface and gulp air. 
> I understand there is a relation ship between hardness
> and CO2 and pH 
> but think its all crap in this context (I'll get to when
> its not crap in 
> a second). If there is a large change in pH over the span
> of 1 month or 
> so the fish gills have to adapt to the new water pH and
> hence don't 
> function properly (in my opinion).
> If you get a stable pH and consequently a stable GH and
> KH then we can 
> start looking at CO2 levels using the relation ship
> formulas. Remember 
> plants are slow growing creatures and as such bacteria
> and water quality 
> generally need to be maintained and established over at
> least a month in 
> order to make a good judgement. This is however where I
> fall over cause 
> I only have 3 or 4 months experience with plants... how
> ever I do belong 
> to a plant group where most people have been doing it for
> 5 years or so.
> Their opinion is keep every thing balanced. If something
> gets out of 
> hand then something ie algae or fish starts to take over
> or suffer.  
> Fertilisers and Substrates are the key and it seams the
> people who 
> fiddle less tend to get a better balanced tank the
> quickest.
> My current conclusions (cause we're always learning):
> Micro, Macro neutrents are important don't buy anything
> unless it says 
> exactly how much of what is on the label.  Phosphate
> sucks when you 
> can't control it. My fish food has too much phosphate
> hence why I think 
> phosphate sucks.  Buy you ferts from a large company
> cause they are 
> probably more reliably work. ie dupla or Seachem. Fish
> breed when the 
> water is above 27 degC and are generally happiest about
> 28degC (tropical 
> fish I mean).   A large canister filter is better cause
> you don't have 
> to clean it as often hence the system is more balanced
> without ups and 
> downs of bacteria. Plants require water flow cause they
> grow better in 
> front of the water outlet than in the centre of the tank.
> Guppies/TIger 
> barbs are NOT fin nippers when fed there greens ie
> Wardley Algae Discs.
> Nuf said.
> =Nick
> S. Hieber wrote:
> >Can more folks report on non-co2 set-ups where they
> don't
> >have morning-gasping and don't have aeration other than
> a
> >water (or filter) pump?
> >
> >Scott H.
> >
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