[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [APD] CO2 loss from Wet/drys



Yes. Diff things go into the matter. Iirc, George reported
higher CO2 consumption, but not any nearly as much as I've
come across.

I've been trying diff things for over a year to reduce the
amount of shedding with the sump set-up, including custom
made covers for the overflow and the sump, diff drain
arrangements and variations on both Durso and Stockman1 and
Stockman2 standpipes, with and without media in the sump or
overflow, or both, pump flow rates, and a few diff overflow
designs, as well as varying the water flow thorugh the CO2
mixer (aka, "reactor").

Of all these things, the one that made the most diff was
the pump flow rate, the more water going through, the
faster the shedding. Next in terms of impact, was the
inclusion or exclusion of trickle media. 

I think it's worth noting that I started the sump set-up
with the same pump that I had been using on the canister
filter that I used before installing the sump. The water
flow rate was noticeably lower using that Eheim pump on 
the sump since, unlike canister filters, on the sump set-up
the pump has to work against gravity to get the return
water uphill but has no compensating benefit of gravity
from the intake.

I'm not saying that using a sump will always increase CO2
shedding. And I'm not disputing the inidivual results
George or you, Tom, have reported. I'm just saying that my
experience is very diff and it is not generally the case
that a sump sheds no faster than a cansiter. I'm rather
well convinced that it's likely a sump will increase CO2
shedding even if efforts are made to not give the gas a
place to go. And the place where all the "action" is
happening is the overflow  and drain.

Although I have covered the overflow, I have not tried
hermetically sealing the overflow, which is probably the
only thing that I can think of yet to try. Of course, this
won't work on an interior overflow chamber, not if one
wants water to enter ;-)

Also note, folks, that I'm not condemning sumps either.
Imo, a sump is a good place to hide the heater (tube
heater, not so good for hiding heater cables ;-) ) and an
easy place to introduce chems, and CO2 is cheap where I
live ($10 per refill).

Oh, and before anyone suggests it, sure, I've checked for
leaks.

I'd be perfectly happy to wrong; it would mean more money
for me with fewer trips to the CO2 supplier. I guess you
could say that I've been trying for about a year to be
wrong and just haven't had any luck yet. Whether that would
be good luck or bad, hmmm at least the irony is free.

regards,
Scott H.
--- Thomas Barr <tcbiii at yahoo_com> wrote:

> >> No, there should be no difference in CO2 loss if you
> seal
> >> the wet/dry air vents and raise ther overflow to about
> 4"
> >> inches below the tank's water surface. Wet drys will
> not
> >> degas if you do these two simple things. 
> 
> >Based on my experience, that's not true. If your set-up
> >shedding CO2 at a realtively high rate before installing
> a
> >sump system, then the sump system won't make a really
> big
> >diff. IF the set-up was very CO2 efficient to start
> wtih,
> >then switching to a sump can as much as double CO2 use.
> I
> >can't think of where all the extra is all going except
> up
> >up and awayyyyyy.
>  
> >> Steve, George and myself all found this to be true
> many
> >> years ago independently. See APD Archives for more.
> 
> >Been there, read that. Imagine my surprise when I
> installed
> >the sump ;-)
> 
> >Scott H.
> 
> I guess all three of us where incorrect independently?
> Being that each of us are pretty anal about testing and
> other confounding factors, it's not likely............
>  
> Surface movement/turnover/turbulances etc, flow rates etc
> all play a role, bubble size differences(CO2) etc. Also,
> biomass in the filter itself also plays a role.
>  
> The wet dry section needs to be sealed to the outside.
> Various Overflow pipes can also reduce
> degassing/noise/gurggling.
>  
> The gas goes somewhere if the rate is truly the same. 
>  
> Regards, 
> Tom Barr
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:03:36 -0400
> From: James Foley 
> Subject: [APD] Crossing the bridge...
> To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
> 
> You'll have to get in touch with the Canadian Food
> Inspection Agency. You
> may need a phytosanitary certificate to get them over. A
> pretty labour
> intensive and costly way to get clippings.
> 
> Reagrds,
> James
> Thunder Bay Aquascapes
> 
> 
> 
> > I'm not totally familiar with the current standing of
> moving live
> > plants across the boarder - used to ship up that way,
> but that was
> > before a lot fo the current rules and regs went into
> place. I know its
> > much harder to get them into the states than
> vice-versa, but i would
> > advise you to do some checking with your local
> regulations just to make
> > sure you're in the clear before ya head on over. I
> would feel bad if
> > ya came across and got your cuttings, only to have them
> nibbed by
> > customs coming back home.
> >
> > mushy plants received two weeks later are no fun :(
> >
> > anyone who knows more willing to share with us?
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > -Berne Kairunas
> > Aquatic Plant Specialist
> > Choice Aquariums Sales Team
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> >
> >
> > End of Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 24, Issue 33
> > **********************************************
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:35:17 -0500
> From: "Tom Wood" 
> Subject: Re: [APD] Gypsum
> To: 
> 
> It's common practice to throw the waste pieces of gypsum
> drywall out the
> windows of new homes as they being built. It collects
> around the perimeter
> of the house. Then, rather than haul it off, it is
> frequently covered up by
> a thin layer of topsoil and any landscaping. If you are
> having trouble
> getting plants to grow near a recently built house, dig
> down and see if
> there are pieces of old drywall buried under there. A
> little may be good,
> too much is too much.
> 
> TW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:01:37 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "S. Hieber" 
> Subject: Re: [APD] Gypsum
> To: aquatic plants digest 
> 
> Well, when it is distinctly stratified and compressed,
> yes,
> that can be a problem.
> 
> You don't want to know what else some guys do during
> house
> construction, but if you are moving into a new home, it's
> a
> good idea to flush the drains.
> 
> sh
> 
> --- Tom Wood wrote:
> 
> > It's common practice to throw the waste pieces of
> gypsum
> > drywall out the
> > windows of new homes as they being built. It collects
> > around the perimeter
> > of the house. Then, rather than haul it off, it is
> > frequently covered up by
> > a thin layer of topsoil and any landscaping. If you are
> > having trouble
> > getting plants to grow near a recently built house, dig
> > down and see if
> > there are pieces of old drywall buried under there. A
> > little may be good,
> > too much is too much.
> > 
> > TW
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > 
> 
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * *
> So far it looks like this might be the biggest year ever
> for Aquascaping Contest entries from countries outside of
> North America. 
> 
> Share the fun; show your work.
> The AGA's 6th Annual International Aquascaping Contest is
> open.
> 
> The deadline for submissions to the AGA Aquascaping
> contest is September 15.
> 
> Entries are only $5 and for that half a sawbuck you can
> have your AGA entry automatically entered in the ADA
> (Aqua Design Amano) contest for free, a savings in time
> and shipping costs!
> 
> 
> 
> Check it out at: 
> http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:06:43 -0400
> From: "Wise, Nicholas" 
> Subject: Re: [APD] Gypsum
> To: "aquatic plants digest" 
> 
> My neighbor was digging a pool and low and behold, guess
> what he found?
> 
> All the brick rubble from the neighborhood's construction
> had been
> buried in his backyard. Tons of bricks, tons.....
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 
> >
>
aquatic-plants-bounces+nicholas_wise=lgeenergy.com at actwin.com
> 
> >
>
[mailto:aquatic-plants-bounces+nicholas_wise=lgeenergy.com at act
> > win.com] On Behalf Of S. Hieber
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:02 PM
> > To: aquatic plants digest
> > Subject: Re: [APD] Gypsum
> > 
> > Well, when it is distinctly stratified and compressed,
> yes, 
> > that can be a problem.
> > 
> > You don't want to know what else some guys do during
> house 
> > construction, but if you are moving into a new home,
> it's a 
> > good idea to flush the drains.
> > 
> > sh
> > 
> > --- Tom Wood wrote:
> > 
> > > It's common practice to throw the waste pieces of
> gypsum 
> > drywall out 
> > > the windows of new homes as they being built. It
> collects 
> > around the 
> > > perimeter of the house. Then, rather than haul it
> off, it is 
> > > frequently covered up by a thin layer of topsoil and
> any 
> > landscaping. 
> > > If you are having trouble getting plants to grow near
> a 
> > recently built 
> > > house, dig down and see if there are pieces of old
> drywall buried 
> > > under there. A little may be good, too much is too
> much.
> > > 
> > > TW
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > * * * * * * * * * * *
> > So far it looks like this might be the biggest year
> ever for 
> > Aquascaping Contest entries from countries outside of
> North America. 
> > 
> > Share the fun; show your work.
> > The AGA's 6th Annual International Aquascaping Contest
> is open.
> > 
> > The deadline for submissions to the AGA Aquascaping
> contest 
> > is September 15.
> > 
> > Entries are only $5 and for that half a sawbuck you can
> have 
> > your AGA entry automatically entered in the ADA (Aqua
> Design 
> > Amano) contest for free, a savings in time and shipping
> costs!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Check it out at: 
> > http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> 
> 
> End of Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 24, Issue 34
> **********************************************
> 
> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
>  Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
> _______________________________________________
> Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> 


* * * * * * * * * * *
So far it looks like this might be the biggest year ever for Aquascaping Contest entries from countries outside of North America. 

Share the fun; show your work.
The AGA's 6th Annual International Aquascaping Contest is open.

The deadline for submissions to the AGA Aquascaping contest is September 15.

Entries are only $5 and for that half a sawbuck you can have your AGA entry automatically entered in the ADA (Aqua Design Amano) contest for free, a savings in time and shipping costs!



Check it out at: 
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org
_______________________________________________
Aquatic-Plants mailing list
Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants