Re: [APD] RE: them spores

["Richard J. Sexton" <richard at aquaria_net>]

At 06:33 PM 12/15/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>>I think folks arer assuming a lot about the spores of green algae and also
>> the potential for them coming in from things other than the air from
>> outside. Tracing the path would be difficult and rather tough to say.
>>
>> Nah, it's an all FS water.
>
>No, thjis is patently not true, several sources had shown Caldophora can be
>transported via air/wind to new locations. 
>It does not have to be water born. That is an assumption.
>You can belach and try to keep things out, nothing wrong with that if you
>are able and willing to go through all that. It may prevent algae, we shall
>see how long you last, you might be able to keep it out fro good, but
>getting new plants, fish, a non sterilized net etc is all it takes.
>Then there are other algae that have no trouble coming in via the air.    
>I do not have  lot of trouble with Oedogonium, Caldophora or Rhizolclonium,
>others might, I have been able to get rid of it by a very simple methods as
>well. 

I don't either. Paul K. did and bleached his way out of it and
it's never come back (cept in two cases where he didn't sterilize
incoming fish or plants).

>> >FYI, most all FW algae are cosmopolitian, except desmids.
>>
>> Nah, they're rural too. I've got a couple still. WTF does that mean Tom.
>
>Wolrd wide, there is no local "Caldophora, Oedogonium etc, it's everywhere,
>meaning it manage to spread to about every body of water on the planet.
>Only the desmids seen to have regional habitats.   

Ok, what's a desmid?

>> The snot algae seems to become green thread algae or perhaps it's just
>> coincidence they're always together.
>
>Snot algae?
>A new one or a new term for something else?
>Thread algae with diatoms covering it perhaps?

Nah, it looked more like a feeshwater sponge. Bulbous puffy slimey
birght bright merald green round lumpy things on the tips of some
Mayaca. I cleaned it out and it never came bacj.

>> The point I was trying to make earleir about bacteria and algae is the
>> non-plant algaes are very sensitive to H202 and seem to be able to
>permeate
>> a plants tissues like, well, a bacterial infection. And must be treated
>> as such - wash your hands welll, strilze nets, etc.
>
>Well, I think the other plant like algae, the Greens are well suited to
>this since the other algae are easier to deal with using good nutrients
>alone. 
>
>> Toms (Duplas? :-) mthos does indeed keep it under control very well BUT
>
>Dupla's? Haha, I'm anti Dupla in many respects. 

Well yeah but they were the first ones to really publish "hey are
ferts like crazy, use lighthouse bulbs and injecty inject inject
co2 - although I notice now JJ Scheel advocated CO2 injection
in the late 50s. He used HCL and marble.

>> if I give a plant to somebody I don't want a sprwaling black hary
>> mass to evolve from it; I want it eradicated not controlled.
>
>Well then you need long term management for eradication if that is your
>goal.
>Control is much simpler, once stable, it's very easy to deal with. 
>But you can do both. 

'zactly.

>> On the H202 front - 2cc/gal for three days seems to systematically
>> eradicate bacterial algaeas and hurts nothing else. 
>
>Probably would do it. 
>
>But that's in
>> one of my tanks that's fairly bare - any other tank may react
>> differently depending on how much organix matter there is to 
>> break up the hH202.
>
>Yep.
>
> Be careful! Certianly you would want to run a
>> diamtom when you're doing this as it breaks up every little piece of
>> crap eevrywhere and makes it float. Then you have the ammonia spike
>> from all the dead algae - ammocarb fixes this.
>
>I don't think that would occur, unless hyou have one very nasty algae
>outbreak and don't remove any prior to treatment. 

It happens alright. There's lots of algae you can't see - slight turbitity
in the
water is in most cases under a microscope, algae and when all that dies, ammonia
spokes.

It's the same warning you read on Aquarium Pharmecuticals Algaw Fix
which reportedy kills thread alage. That warning is there for a good
reason.

>I keep at least one fishless tank for torture.

I have a couple.

>I induced some green water but it's not in log phase growth yet.

I just diatom that once, change water and it's gone. I get it in new
tanks.

>I'll try 1ml/liter of 3% to see how it affects the alga.  

That's higher than inverts can take. I think the secret to h202 is
not a big dose - 15 secodns of straight 3% did not kill anything
but black/red algae, thread algae susvived, but, so far 4 days at 60ppm
seems to kill off alage and leave even mayace unharmed.

>> If you just have small bits and pieces this will eradicate it. But
>> whet you may find is, oh, say one lousy crypt leaf at the back
>> thick with the stuff. You need to dose that directly with 5cc
>> 4 x a day for one day to kill it (and leave the leav unharmed)
>> THEN dose the tank again and it will be eradicated.
>
>Yep, good advice, harass the hell out of the algae little by little and
>that is a mean way to deal with them. 
>Water changes and good nutrients will also go a long way, I pick, fluff,
>preen, prune, trim and scrub mostly.
>That often will cause the algae to go into shock and produce spores(often
>within 2-6 hours) which are much more resistent. Torturing those spores
>more and doing another water change can help or chemical measures like
>H2O2. 

Yeah, changing water before and after helps too.

>The other idea I have for H2O2, is a dosing pump and a redox controller.
>This way a precise amount of H2O2 can be adminsitered. 
>You could also use O3, ozone in this same manner and likely have the same
>result.
>Both decompose into O2/H2O etc.
>Both are strong oxidizers. 

Bing-go.

>Ozone might be easier to use with a redox controller.
>I used a redox/O3 unit years ago with a skimmer and FW. 
>
>If I can locate a decent deal on one, I might give it a whirl.
>
>While many of yuo like to use these things to kill algae, larger scaled
>applications can be applied to kill weeds and algae blooms. 
>But I have a better idea than either of these and better than herbicides
>and I know it works wonders on algae while leaving plants alone. 
>But it's not cheap. 
>
>Anyway, you might consider getting some NH4 and a UV to play with if algae
>torture is your thing.
>A pair of fishless tanks are also a good thing for many reasons. 

I'd be happy to be able to put some paramters on the H202 stuff. I'm
still playing with that. One thing at a time :-)



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