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[APD] RE: Here's the cause of your GW, Ian

> i hate to
>think this is the aforementioned snake oil, but i cant
>see putting any of the copper based algacides in there
>when they specifically say not to.

Don't use any chemicals for this GW outbreak.
I was giving you a controlled method that does work to kill green water,
you remove the plan ts, place them in abucket and dose the copper, but not
enough to harm fish, some fish are sensitive to copper BTW.
I'm interested in selective chemicals and how they impact things, but it's
not something for the newbie really.
You remove all the plants and toss them in abucket for 2 days, bomb the
tank with copper, ansd then remove the water/Copper, then add FW back and
then replant.

>are these print magazines? i looked but noone in my area
>store wise has ever heard of them.

Join the AGA and you can get TAG. Otherwise you can buy them off their site.


>the 80 watts i run are standard fluorescents, and i
>would love to see your GW info.

Search Tom Barr GW, green water etc.

>you know it says right on the stick package that it
>contains low phosphorous. and in the  analysis on the
>back it states:
>dont these help cause algae

Sorry, I'm calling some huge Bull**** on that, they sure do and that is why
you have green water.
It's that simple. 

Low/high PO4 does not make a hill of beans difference.
If anyone would entertain the counter arguement to this, I'd more than
gladly debate the issue and show someone how to precisely show that NH4
causes GW and other nutrients do not:-)

>available phosphate 9% P2O5
>soluble phosphate 12% K2O
>then it says  in addition to other things like boron and
>what not:
>total nitrogen 16%

>ammoniacal nitrogen 7.5%

And as I predicted: there is your problem right there.
I have never been able to induce Green water without NH4.

>nitrate nitrogen 8.5%
>it's all slow release for a year,

Well the clowns that makes these sticks have no business giving anyone
advice about growing aquatic plants, dealing with algae nor saying their
product does not cause algae.
If you dosed just the water column using KNO3, you'd never had had this
I'm not too keen on telling people to add macros to the substrate, but the
NH4/Urea issue gets folks everytime.
Maybe not today, but at some point, you play with fire, you will get burned.

> and there eight of
>these sticks
>would this cause it to seem like i was having an ammonia
>or nitrite spike i havent tested but i just noticed that
>ammoniacal nitrogen

Vacuume these stick out of the gravel. Email the clowns and tell you got GW
becuase of their product even though they say it doesn't, and tell whoever
said Gloss is  a heavy root feeder to prove it.

I'm not mad at you, just people thast taslk about things and they simply do
not know nor researched anything before selling or advising.
Folks have known that GW is caused by NH4 for a few years now.
I want someone to show me any study that suggest in a nutrient rich water
column system that Gloss will use the substrate instead or otherwise do
better with a macro rich substrate. That does not match my own observations
nor can anyone prove this.  

>TMG? i KNEW i should have gotten flourish and i was
>going to, but... geez.
>so i can dose flourish and be getting everything i need?

Tropica master grow=> TMG,
Flourish and TMG both will give you all then traces, that's all these
add(TMG has some K as well).
TMG is good stuff, use it.

>i assumed the same for glosso. the other plants i have
>are easily controlled all taller backgrounds. 

Well, you can give it a hair cut, it can look rastty for a few days till
the new growth comes back, I prefer the more laborious method of pulling
individual runners up before the area is a thick rug and try to keep the
mat 1-2 plants deep.

>i didnt factor in anaerobic pockets which is my fault
>and i'm debating adding a substrate heater to help keep
>lower levels from turining the grey they have been
>lately. any thoughts?

Do not add a substrate heater, search my comments on that.
The Anaerobic layers are from the macros and any organic matyerials you put
in there. Without the organic material, there is niot going to be anything
to eat for the bacteria that use up all the O2 that create the anaerobic
space down there.

>i run my co2 at 15 ppm and i change water every weekend
>30% at least.

Double the CO2(20-30ppm min when the lights are on), 50% weekly water
change, takes about 2 minutes longer vs 30%.


Tom Barr

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