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[APD] RE: Green water and microswords

>all. now in this 29 gallon with 80 watts of light i have
>greenwater and i'm currently subjecting it to a blackout
>of about 3 days. but i wonder if the hydrogen peroxide
>subjects currently being discussed wouldnt work better.
>but i'd have to be careful. it was horrible to because
>my glosso was just starting to take off. anyone have any

Blackout is going to make your Gloss look mighty raggy.
H2O2 is not strong enough to kill GW, I tried copper, it did a good job.
H2O2 also kills bacteria, in a new tank there's not much around, GW is
common because folks don't add enough plants to start off with, don't
provide them with good nutrients/CO2 and then add all this high PC lighting
with the MISTAKENED notion that high light is required and necessary for
red plants. More light is not better, it just shows you what you were
getting away before with less light.
If you return to less light after having  mastered high light, then you can
do quite well.

In any event, there is a ton of stuff I've written about GW if you want
more details than what I'm saying here in the archives.

>i've been using liquid ferts except i use
>nutrafin long release fert sticks under the glosso as as
>my understanding is, it's a heavy root feeder.

You understood wrong and those sticks I'd bet have NH4 in them that is why
you got GW.
One myth leads to another:-)
Adding Jobe's sticks to the substrat is precisely how I figured out GW was
caused by NH4/urea.

I never had it before I started dosing NH4/urea.
I'd been adding everything else EXCEPT NH4/urea at high levels and never
managed to get GW..

Gloss is not a "heavy" root feeder and no one has ever show that it is.
I have shown that it does great without +any+ substrate ferts, most plants
for that matter. It's a lazy way to dose in case you space water column
dosing or have low light or some other method that slows down growth.
Basically it's a back up.
But if it's a heavy feeder, why did it do so well(too well even) without
any fert's in the substrate?

>i feel totally stuck. and i think i should change my
>fertilizing methods... it seems to me that most people
>here frown upon actual aquatic plant ferts and prefer
>raw dry ferts from garden stores? not that  any are open
>this time of year here.

KNO3 is available and so are Fleet(or generic) enemas for PO4.
That takes care of Macros.
Traces: Plantex+Boron(See www.gregwatson.com for everything, KNO3, KH2PO4 +
the trace) dry or TMG or Floruish all are good.

3 things, not complicated in the least.

But the GW did not start because of your fert routine, it starts for one
reason, :NH4, likely from those sticks you added.
No amount of management with ferts will get rid of GW, blackout is often
not effective.

But the nice thing is, GW does not harm the plants(reduces the light some),
and there are 4-5 ways to kill it.
You have to remove this alga and then correct the conditions(remove NH4).

>so much info is conflicting, 

To a new person that is very true, planted tanks have had a huge set of
myths and it's taken a number of ywears to muddle through them.
I've argued most of them into the deep blue sea of death, but folks still
find sites that say all sorts of mythical crap and think if it's on
someone's site, they must be an authority or something.

Ask Common sense questions, does it help grow plants better?
How can it address algae and plants if they both have the same nutrient and
light and CO2 needs? 
Remember that the focus is the plants, not killing algae here.

You can effectively kill GW by:

Micron and/or Diatom Filtration

UV is perhaps the easiest and the easiest to turn on/off. I used it for my
experiementation with GW and NH4.
Very easy, pricy and you only need it during a bloom and that's typically
the last time you'll ever need it.
Diatoms and micron filters are good for other clean up uses.
Daphnia get eaten by fish, copper sensitive plants might not like the extra
Cu but careful dosing takes care of 95% of the issues.
I tend to be very outspoken about herbicides but copper is a plant nutrient
and rather easy to dose and remove.
It's use is also very well studied for it's use in natural systems on a
variety of algae while leaving the aquatic plants intact. 
Not sure why it did not catch on more for all the folks that are suckers
and buy miracle cure snake oil remedies. 

>also i was reading here
>about the microswords, and i cant seem to find ANY info
>detailed about pruning and seperating the small mass to
>create an area of this growth.

See PAM managzine and TAG magazine. I think there are some artcles that
discuss it.

> in fact pruning and
>planting info seems to be the lost arcane knowledge on
>the net. any books i have picked up have not covered
>this in detail. so any info on that or inks or anything
>would be appreciated thanks for everyones time.

I have to agree with you 110%.
I plan on a section for my book on pruning, fluffing, planting, spacing,
density and other things folks always seem to overlook. 
Many new folks think you put the plants in there and they should grow into
an Amano tank and stay that way.

I just rip up the the entire section, clean and remove any detritus,
carefully pick and preen each plant, remove any dead leaves and replant
roughly 1" apart. I plant from the middle of ther group and move outward. I
leave about 2" between another group of plants for grow out. Errant runners
are hacked off and replanted in the center or another tank or off to market
for sale.

Main things, 3 things for dosing, 
Good CO2
Good regular maintenance.

You need to kill the GW first and then do the above.

Tom Barr


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