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Re: [APD] RE: Nitrogen
Thomas Barr wrote:
Does rising pH and thus lowering NH4 concentration mitigate green water
problem? This is just theoretical curiosity.
> Not the NH4.
> Something caused a back up of the NH4 uptake.
Ok. I assumed mistakenly that nitrogen would only be present in a water
column in the form of NH3, NO2 and NO3.
NH3/NH4 is a pH based ratio.
Plants and algae use NH4. The lower the pH, the more that exist as NH4.
Plants will reduce the NH3 to NH4 at some stage.
It's on the krib somewhere or you can find the references on line at a
It the context here, it does not matter much.
Think NH4 and plant nutrient that can at high levels(not that high,
typically unmeasurable with most test kits), think NO3 plant nutrient that
does not cause algae blooms.
Ok. Let me practice my new understanding here. That would happen because
it would limit higher plants grows
> It's plenty for the algae(NH4 and only a small amount is needed) but
> not enough total N for the plants.
Does it mean that plans would consume NO3, NH3 and NH4 but the rate of
consumption of NO3 is higher then for NH3/4?
The speed at which the NH4 is produced is slow and steady
generally/hopefully. Ideally it will be used up as fast as it's produced.
So it's gone before you can test for it.
But plants need far more N than NH4 alone can supply at high light/CO2. It
does not hurt to have morderately high NO3 levels in a non CO2 tank or very
low light CO2 enriched tank either, but it's not mandatory either if you
have a good fish load and feed regularly.
Does this mean that algae (green water one) prefers (consumes faster)
NH4 or it takes in only NH4 and alike, not NO3?
NH4 induces the bloom(causes the normally inactive spores to activate),
once established, the adult algae are very tough to get rid of.
The adults will use NO3 as well as NH4 like "adult" plants(All plants in
relation to algae are huge "adults").
The reason for my
question is that you want to maintain NO3 slightly above zero, so as not
to starve higher plants, isn't?
Not slightly above zero, there's not need for such close tolerances,
5-20ppm seems fine.
You are getting close to bottoming out less than 5 or so ppm.
That will cause algae as well.
and consumption of NH3/4. Am I right?
There are other cycles going on and I'm not going to get into it because
it'll confuse you now.
Wait for later for that.
I am very much interested in other cycles. Where do I read about them?
With 5w/gal and DIY CO2?
I never had any Green water till I added NH4.
More light and poor varying CO2 levels will sure help Green water.
Make sure the pH and KH are giving you 20-30ppm of CO2.
The pm time will have the least amount of CO2 so that's the main one to
I gave you the reason why, there are many things that you could have done
to influence the NH4 uptake and caused a back up of this to induce the
You can answer that better than I can.
I see. So, I try to maintain level of nutients such as to maximise uptake
of NH3/4 by plants?
I see. Adding NO3 into the water column is easier.
>> Thus I'd like to supply additional nitrogen to a higher plants
>>only, which means adding something to a substrate.
> No, this method does not work. The algae are not limited while you are
> able to supply the nutrients to the plants.
But wouldn't stimulating higher order plants help them to consume more
NH3/4 and thus make it a limiting factor in algae grows?
Stimulating them helps sure, but it does not matter where you do this is
the point here.
Thanks, a lot.
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