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[APD] Competition algae and bacteria and plants

>How do algae and plants compete? Do they have little boxing gloves?

See over at APC, some one asked there not long ago.

>For that matter, how do bacteria compete?
>Do they soak up all the mineralized nutrients to create a shortage that
>suppresses the growth of the competition?

It's a larger community than we can see with our eyes, there are many interactions occuring. Plants cna and do influence bacteria and the species.

>Tom, you are espousing very frequent water changes; this would dissipate
>allelopathic competition mechanisms. There seems to be scant evidence to
>support allelopathic competition in aquatic plants.

There is none as far as I can tell in the field studies, eg natural systems. You can speculate I suppose, but I do not find consistent evidence for even that with my own observations with growing some 200+ species of weeds.
I just don't buy the notion that the intensity of allelopathy is the same for any and all plant species.
Biochemically that is pretty much impossible.

Water changes alone will not tell you if it occurs, it might help give you an idea or peer into the question though.

Still, why then do algae not grow say in  NON CO2 tank then that gets no water changes? I have the answer there as well.

>Let's skip the anthropomorphic explanations and talk biological
>mechanisms dag-nab-it! Let's get down to microscopic, cellular level and
>lower. I want to learn something here!

If you say so.

>What is the role of the algae & bacteria consumers? I think this may be
>the key.

Perhaps but the fish/shrimp eat them.
These are herbivore predation issues now. 

>Is it possible that macrophytes are stimulating growth of other
>organisms, in particular algae consumers?

Not really, the plants might give refuge for them to hide etc. Bacteria perhaps would be the best choice here for a relationship between the two groups.

>If you had no macrophytes in a tank and you provided mineralized
>nutrients ala Tom B's protocol, would you still see progressive
>development of a community of organisms that did not favour filament

You'd get algae.
You'd get a very intense bloom if you added NH4 instead of NO3.

I did a similar experiement with CO2 and O2 gas and no plants/gravel etc already.

Each treatment was very sismilar. 
High CO2+O2
Ambient CO2/O2
High O2
High CO2

Each tank has the same routine/level of nutrients/lighting/flow rate and 8 glass slides per tank for measurement of Chl a levels.

Tom Barr

Steve agitating in Vancouver ;-)

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