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Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
thanks for the reply !
:)
Yes, that was the question...
I don't know either, but I believe EDTA is the cheappiest of them all..
;)
it's economics, they must use the cheaper one...
Regards!
António Vitor
----- Original Message -----
From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
To: "aquatic plants digest" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> I belive your question was contained in this:
>
> "My guess is that they use EDTA (the same stuff present on
> fertilizers), it's
> cheap, even present on hair conditioneres and shampoos.
>
> Someone know what are those afinities (EDTA) with common
> metals?"
>
> I'm not a chemist and I don't know that answer. I suspect
> that the common chelators do grab at least some of them but
> then I don't know that all the conditoners use those common
> chelators.
>
> So that's not much help and why I didn't respond previously
> to that question except to point to Dr. Morin's posts.
> There's no need to use more conditioner than what's
> required to knock out the chlorine or chloramines. I
> believe the conditioners will atach trace elements if they
> don't have any of the heavy stuff to grab. But, as I
> understand from what Dr. Morin has posted, the effect is
> small -- the asumption being that the heavy metals are in
> extrememly low concentrations -- much lower than any trace
> mix adds -- so enough treat heavy metals is not enough to
> seriously deplete nutrient traces. I tend to dose a bit
> heavy on traces anyway and don't worry about it.
>
> That's not an answer either, but the best I can give you.
>
> I doubt anyone is ever ignored on APD -- too many of us
> "BIG Mouths" ;-)
>
> Sometimes, a poster simply "stumps the band" or hits the
> list with, say , a chemistry question, at a time when the
> chemists are busy.
>
> Scott H.
> --- António_Vitor <antonio_vitor at sapo.pt> wrote:
>
> > If I am wrong...at least say that!
> > hoo well...
> > :(
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "António Vitor" <antonio_vitor at sapo.pt>
> > To: "aquatic plants digest" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:58 PM
> > Subject: Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> >
> >
> > > I posted 2 times, made a question...
> > > and no answers !
> > >
> > > that is annoying...
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "António Vitor" <antonio_vitor at sapo.pt>
> > > To: "aquatic plants digest" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:53 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Is only my impression, or my posts are being
> > neglected???
> > > >
> > > > António Vitor
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Laith Arif" <laith at swissonline_ch>
> > > > To: "'aquatic plants digest'"
> > <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 7:35 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > So I guess there isn't really an issue here. The
> > conditioner is not
> > > going
> > > > > to have an impact on the ferts/nutrients/traces for
> > the plants.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for clearing that up!
> > > > >
> > > > > Laith
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: S. Hieber [mailto:shieber at yahoo_com]
> > > > > Sent: 17 August 2004 00:42
> > > > > To: aquatic plants digest
> > > > > Subject: RE: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe Dr. Morin's basic point was that Prime
> > "grabs"
> > > > > the heavy metals before iron and such.
> > > > >
> > > > > Scott H.
> > > > > --- Laith Arif <laith at swissonline_ch> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, thanks for the info and the links.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So Greg Morin is correct when he says "This
> > should not be
> > > > > > an issue unless
> > > > > > you are really wanting to keep high levels of
> > lead,
> > > > > > mercury and cadmium ;-)
> > > > > > (all toxic heavy metals)."?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's mainly these toxic heavy metals that are
> > > > > > removed/neutralized?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The reason I asked in the first place was just
> > wondering
> > > > > > whether at every
> > > > > > water change and the addition of the conditioner,
> > I was
> > > > > > basically starting
> > > > > > out with water "bare" of all metals and needed to
> > take
> > > > > > this into account
> > > > > > when dosing ferts and traces.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the input.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Laith
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: S. Hieber [mailto:shieber at yahoo_com]
> > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2004 11:36
> > > > > > To: aquatic plants digest
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > None of hte elements in the aquariumare, say,
> > converted
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > energy -- if they are there before the
> > conditioner is
> > > > > > added, they are there afterwards. It's a matter
> > of the
> > > > > > chemical or ionic bonds and what compounds are in
> > the
> > > > > > tank.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Conditioners that "remove" chloramine break up
> > the
> > > > > > compound
> > > > > > into constituents that can then remain separate
> > or
> > > > > > recombine with other elements to form new
> > compounds.
> > > > > > Something that breaks up chloramine could leave
> > your tank
> > > > > > with a sudden dose of ammonia.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some conditioners bind the elements and bind some
> > > > > > so-called
> > > > > > heavy metals. The metal elements are not gone,
> > but tied
> > > > > > up
> > > > > > in a compound that is presumably less risky to
> > fish or
> > > > > > plants. Some conditioners, like SeaChem Prime
> > break up
> > > > > > chloramine and then "grab" the nitrogen in a new
> > compound
> > > > > > less harmful to fish but still available to
> > plants as a
> > > > > > nutrient.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is an order of "preference" for what metals
> > a
> > > > > > conditioner will grab.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are lots of posts in the archives. Here are
> > a few:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200102/msg00171.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200302/msg00030.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200303/msg00029.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It matters what conditioner you use. If you have
> > > > > > chloramines, you want something thatdoesn't leave
> > you
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > a sudden dose of ammonia. As for trace metals, I
> > don't
> > > > > > think it's an issue. If there is nothing else to
> > bind,
> > > > > > some
> > > > > > iron might be bound but the amount is small and a
> > worthy
> > > > > > trade-off for gaurding against chlorine,
> > chloramine, and
> > > > > > heavy metals. And the bound iron can still be
> > gotten by
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > plants eventually.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good luck, good fun,
> > > > > > Scott H.
> > > > > > --- Laith Arif <laith at swissonline_ch> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm curious to know what exactly my water
> > conditioner
> > > > > > > (JBL Biotopol) means
> > > > > > > by "removes heavy metals"... Does anyone know?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just wondering if besides removing chlorine and
> > > > > > > chloramine it's also
> > > > > > > removing useful plant nutrients (micro and/or
> > macro).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > =====
> > > > > > Want to get dirty but stay clean?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Diana Walstad, author of _Ecology of the Planted
> > > > > > Aquarium_ will discuss soil
> > > > > > supplemented aquarium substrates at the 2004 AGA
> > > > > > Convention.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Convention Details/Registration at
> > aquatic-gardeners.org
> > > > > > & gwapa.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > > >
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > =====
> > > > > Want to get dirty but stay clean?
> > > > >
> > > > > Diana Walstad, author of _Ecology of the Planted
> > Aquarium_ will
> > discuss
> > > > soil
> > > > > supplemented aquarium substrates at the 2004 AGA
> > Convention.
> > > > >
> > > > > Convention Details/Registration at
> > aquatic-gardeners.org & gwapa.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > >
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > >
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > >
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> >
>
>
> =====
> Want to get dirty but stay clean?
>
> Diana Walstad, author of _Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_ will discuss
soil supplemented aquarium substrates at the 2004 AGA Convention.
>
> Convention Details/Registration at aquatic-gardeners.org & gwapa.org
> _______________________________________________
> Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
>
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