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[APD] RE: KHCO3 and paranoid people that are down right rude

>  The potassium permanganate I got from another place 
> to disinfect my plants is now on the federal watch list!  You can also
> alum for this but it takes longer to kill snail eggs with alum than it
does with 
> KMnO4.  The down side of course is that potassium permanganate can kill
> fish or you or your kids if your not careful.  According to Handbook of
> Diseases, by Dieter Untergasser, pg. 59: "If the whole fish population
> perish due to an epidemic, it is advisable to disinfect...[the tank 
> and]...Destroy the plants.

Any strong oxidizer will work, H2O2, bleach etc.
Funny, I've never lost a fish to disease in keeping a fully planted tank.No
epidemics here. I've had Discus, Gar, all sorts, SW too.
I've never had a disease. I also do not dip my plants in these things. Just
a few good risings with tap water and let them sit for awhile in that,
swirling them around etc, I've collected plants from the wilds for a very
long time now. Perhaps the live food and stress might be the cause?????

Maybe Dieter should destroy the fish instead? hehe
KMnO4 works well like bleach as a dip. Alan did this a few times.  

> Anyway, the point is the chemical supply places are concerned about your 
> safety and would not want to see bad chemicals fall into the hands of bad

Ahhhhh doh!
So we should not sell gasoline either then? Paint thinner?  No one checks
those.......they are bad chemicals also. There are lots of common things
that are available that are highly explosive the laws do not address. 
Pressurized, these chemicals can do a lot of damage. Guns kill 1000's a
year by very bad people. How many die from KHCO3? I'd really like to see
some stats on this. Ignorance is not a justification for law or a
regulation nor the manner in which a customer with good intent plans on
using such a chemical.

Does not make any sense to me. I have guns, paint thinner, gunpowder and
gasoline and can get as much as I want. If bad people want chemicals that
do bad things, regulating KHCO3 or KNO3 is not going to help.

On one level your personal safety and competence is a much more logical a
reason. So why is HCL and other chemicals sold at pool stores and the local
Home Depot? I see little consistency with the reasons given for all this. 
The governement policies are one thing, but if the service person behind
the counter gives me crap/attitude, then I'm going to get might pissed off
and let them know it in no uncertain terms. I expect good service as a
customer. Not being treated like a criminal or less than human,a potential
Like the book 1984 , a few years off, but chillingly similar. Cameras in
businesses, suspect everyone. 
I'm much more concerned about a legal drug, booze, and getting run over or
some fool with an automatic gun sniping people. 

> Everytime I call different chemical people about chemicals they get
> and harder to deal with and I know it's not just me, although I am mildly 
> annoying.  Some people use potassium sulphate.  They use it for the
potassium but 
> the sulphate is already supplied by the magnesium sulphate MgSO4 in your

Well, high SO4 is not going to cause any issue.
Nor is the sodium, but K+ would be nice given a choice.

> The guy at the welding supply store got mad at me when I told him I was 
> growing aquarium plants because he thinks I'm growing pot with my CO2.  

I do not appreciate people being paranoid and assumptive towards me and I
find it very offensive and an attack on my pursuit of freedom and liberty
to grow all the aquatic plants I want to. It's crazy that aquarist cannot
get some fertilizer without paranoid crap and people being rude and

Aquatic plant growers should not have to put up with being treated this way.

Call the manager. Call the owner, Call your Congressman/woman.

Even if he did not come out and say it, you can tell there's the
attitude.Any customer service rep that called me a liar or even suggested
I'm doing something illegal is going to be in for a rude awaking. 

> like a man that thought he was being lied to.  I could see the anger in
> eyes.  Alas, we are such a misunderstood lot.
> Sincerely, George Mangen

The customer is always right and deserves to be treated with respect. 

If anyone treated me like that on the other side of the counter I'd be mad
as hell. I've been on both sides of the counter. I do not have that problem
where I get my CO2. The guy is nice as pie and knows what I use the CO2
for. Most are interested, so I bring in pictures next time. I've never had
issues at the ag turf places buying 50lb sacs. If I want 2000lbs of
ammonium nitrate, that's another story, fill out the permit, do the process
and they may let you have that if the paper work and proposed use all
checks out but they still do not have to give attitude or grill you.
Permitting is not about anger, suspicion, paranoia, it's about safety and
proper use for the proper reasons.  

I find it amazing that you cannot even grow aquatic plants here without
suspicion, paranoia, stonewalling, and ignorance..........that's not my
"planted America".
Tom Barr

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