Re: [APD] RE: (high pH) Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20

[revance at indiana_edu]

Sorry, I forgot to mention something. 

Jas, I don't know how familiar you are with RO water, but it is basically 
water with everything else taken out. Adding the RO Right is simply adding 
back the "good things" that you want. It is not quite the same as adding 
chemical conditioning products such as pH down etc. It is very easy to use and 
doesn't come with the nasty side effects that most chemical additives do. I 
just wanted to let you know that it does not cause what you reffer to 
as "chemical hell".  I just wanted to make this difference clear. Again 
sorry... I talk too much.


Quoting revance at indiana_edu:

> What is probably causing your high pH is your KH or carbonate hardness. Are 
> you using tap water? If so, have you tested your tap water? You will probably
> 
> find that it too has a high KH and pH. Mine has a VERY high KH and even with
> 
> CO2 injection I can only manage to get my pH down to 7.8 (and that is getting
> 
> almost dangerously high levels of CO2). 
> 
> You could try various water softening methods, but I think it is easier to 
> just do water changes with reverse osmosis water to bring it down. I use 
> reverse osmosis water with RO Right (or similar product). The RO right puts 
> trace elements and other elements that are needed in the water. By following
> 
> the instructions for the RO Right you can adjust your KH and pH by adding 
> different amounts of it. If you want a lower pH, you just don't add as much.
> 
> Again, the instructions of most products will give you a guidline of how much
> 
> you want to use per gallon for your targeted pH. 
> 
> You can get RO water from almost any grocery store. They usually have a self
> 
> service dispenser. Make sure it is REALLY reverse osmosis water! Good ones 
> will have an explanation of the filtration process and it usually includes 
> carbon, RO membrane, and UV sterilization. I know many people don't like
> these 
> because they usually aren't as good as the ones you can buy yourself, but a 
> good RO unit will cost you hundreds of dollars. If you are up to the 
> commitment go for it... its a great thing to have. Otherwise... the ones at 
> the grocery store are good enough for me (come on... you are comparing it to
> 
> tap water) and only cost about $0.35 a gallon.
> 
> Russ
> 
> 
> Quoting Jason <romans837 at copper_net>:
> 
> > I just set up a new tank last night and I am experiencing an extremely
> > high ph.  I have a master test kit and here is what
> > I have
> > 
> > Gh is 9
> > Ph is 8.8+ (this is using the high range test)
> > 
> > One thing I need to know is will this hurt the plants I have.  I got
> > java fern, hydrophilia, and anubias. 
> > Two this is way to high for the fish I am thinking of getting.  Most of
> > the fish I want are in the 6.5 to 8.0 range.
> > 
> > Any ideas on how to safely lower it without getting into chemical hell.
> > 
> > 
> > I have heard of using peat with a carbon filter is this a good way to
> > go?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Jas
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: aquatic-plants-bounces+romans837=copper_net at actwin.com
> > [mailto:aquatic-plants-bounces+romans837=copper_net at actwin.com] On
> > Behalf Of aquatic-plants-request at actwin_com
> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:02 AM
> > To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
> > Subject: Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20
> > 
> > 
> > Send Aquatic-Plants mailing list submissions to
> > 	aquatic-plants at actwin_com
> > 
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> > 
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> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> > "Re: Contents of Aquatic-Plants digest..."
> > 
> > 
> > Today's Topics:
> > 
> >    1. Re:Growing Glosso Update.  (Candy M.)
> >    2. Re: planting small foreground plants (Wright Huntley)
> >    3. Re: Strange nutrient absorption problem (S. Hieber)
> >    4. Re: Growing Glosso Update (Billinet at aol_com)
> >    5. Re: What is Malay fern? (Chuck H)
> >    6. Re: Growing Glosso Update (Byron Yu)
> >    7. Re: Growing Glosso Update (Andrew McLeod)
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 20:13:44 -0600
> > From: "Candy M." <cry_little_sister at hotmail_com>
> > Subject: Re:[APD] Growing Glosso Update. 
> > To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
> > 
> > The fish may develop a resistance to the ick but then they may not. IMHO
> > 
> > letting them die to get new fish is simply cruel especially if you
> > consider 
> > that the ick will still be in the tank waiting to jump on any fish you
> > toss 
> > in it as soon as they are stressed, simply buying new fish will cause 
> > stress... not to mention the ordeals they suffered before you got them.
> > If 
> > you don't have a sick tank then you don't have a quarantine tank so what
> > 
> > ever new fish you buy will risk adding even more possible problems to
> > the 
> > tank you don't want to treat. My suggestion is if you simply will not
> > set up 
> > a sick/quarantine tank is to buy a plastic container to treat them in.
> > 
> > While the plants are the focus of my tanks, I am still a soft touch with
> > 
> > living creatures sorry if the above offends you.
> > 
> > As far as the algae eaters, you can supplement their diet with blanched 
> > vegetables like zucchini, cucumber, green beans etc.
> > 
> > Candy
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page - download MSN Toolbar
> > now! 
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 21:52:10 -0800
> > From: Wright Huntley <whuntley at verizon_net>
> > Subject: Re: [APD] planting small foreground plants
> > To: Aquatic Plants Digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > 
> > Shireen,
> > 
> > > From: Shireen Gonzaga <whimbrel at comcast_net>
> > > Subject: [APD] planting small foreground plants
> > > To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
> > > Cc: Shireen Gonzaga <whimbrel at comcast_net>
> > > 
> > > Hi ... I've been having a hard time planting small foreground plants
> > > like glosso because my fish keep uprooting them! Does anyone have 
> > > creative ideas on how to secure them till a good root system has been 
> > > established? The culprits are mostly flagfish, and I think some of the
> > 
> > > Aphyosemion australe are doing it too.
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > >    shireen
> > 
> > Have you been feeding them plenty of veggies? *J. floridae* will consume
> > 
> > impressive amounts of microwave-blanced zucchini ends and similar foods.
> > 
> > [Failure to provide them will force the fish to go for the easier 
> > plants, as algae is just minor snack food to them.]
> > 
> > The blanching in a bit of water drives out much of the air, and you can 
> > squeeze the rest out. That softens and lets the veggies sink and stay 
> > down where the fish can pick at them easier.
> > 
> > Pupfish, like the American-Flag Fish, are primarily vegetarians and they
> > 
> > are just doin' what comes "natural." :-) I vaguely recall that they also
> > 
> > like some sinking pellets as made for pl*ckos.
> > 
> > For securing small, fine plants, it is hard to beat wrapping in a fine 
> > hairnet (that can include a stone, if needed).
> > 
> > Wright
> > 
> > -- 
> > Wright Huntley - Rt. 001 Box K36, Bishop CA 93514 - whuntley at verizon_net
> >                      760 872-3995
> > 
> > "Do we really think that a government-dominated education is going to 
> > produce citizens capable of dominating their government, as the 
> > education of a truly vigilant self-governing people requires?" [Alan
> > Keyes]
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 03:18:22 -0800 (PST)
> > From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
> > Subject: Re: [APD] Strange nutrient absorption problem
> > To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > 
> > First, be sure that your nitrate tests are giving accurate readings. Do
> > yo have any corroboration from other testing?
> > 
> > If you have a high fish load, it's not hard to be adding
> > enough nitrates from the fish food that no suppplementation
> > is necessary even if there is virtually no nitrates coming
> > in via the tap water.
> > 
> > If fish food is your only source of nitrates bringin your
> > up over about 5-10 ppm, then adjust your water change
> > amounts or schedule to bring the nitrtes back down in to
> > that range. Cleaning your mechanical filtration media more often can
> > also help. Also long as the detritus in inthe water system, it continues
> > to add to the nitrates in the water.
> > 
> > Sounds like a lot of potassium to me. You add in one dose
> > about twice what I do all week with 50% water changes
> > weekly.
> > 
> > I'd like to measure the ortho-phosphates to see if you need
> > to add as much as you are adding. try to target your
> > phosphates for a level about one tenth you nitrate level (0.5-1.0 ppm).
> > 
> > Adding plant food sticks to the substrate can give a plant
> > a big boost but it can easily diffuse into the water column
> > and might be a major source of your water column nitrates.
> > 
> > Scott H.
> > 
> > --- Kevin Sheller <kevmo at arenafan_com> wrote:
> > > I'm having some problems. Here's some stats before we get
> > > to the problem...
> > > 
> > > 75 Gallon
> > > 1 year and 1 month old
> > > 192 watts of standard fluorescents (two 3-bulb T8 hoods -
> > > I haven't changed
> > > the bulbs yet)
> > > Medium-high fish load (12 large rainbows, 4 rosey barbs, standard 
> > > algae
> > > crew)
> > > PH: 6.6 - 6.8 (canister CO2 -- haven't had to refill it
> > > yet)
> > > Nitrate: 17.6 ppm (I don't add any extra)
> > > Iron & Traces: TMG, 2-3 x per week
> > > Potassium: 1 teaspoon potassium sulfate, 2-3 times per
> > > week
> > > Phosphate: 1/8 teaspoon mono potassium phosphate 2-3
> > > times per week
> > > Water changes: 40% once a week
> > > 
> > > Plants: lots of the clover groundcover stuff (not glossostigma, the
> > > slower-growing, dark green stuff) Madagascar lace,
> > > apontageton ulvacius
> > > (which isn't growing well without jobe's sticks) lots of
> > > dwarf sag, some
> > > crypts, rotala macrandra (another that needs jobe's
> > > sticks) rotala
> > > rotundifolia, anubias barteri, giant hygro (which has
> > > just stopped growing
> > > altogether - not pinhole leaves - just stopped growing.)
> > > 
> > > Problems: Plants don't seem to be absorbing the nitrate
> > > much. I don't have
> > > to add any, and it still seems to go up over time. Not as much 
> > > pearling as I used to have. The plants don't do as well unless I
> > > supplement with jobe's
> > > sticks... Today I'm starting to get a bloom (bacteria or
> > > algae - not sure
> > > which yet). The plants need SOMETHING they aren't
> > > getting, but I can't
> > > figure out what.
> > > 
> > > Kevmo
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com 
> > > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > 
> > 
> > =====
> > S. Hieber
> > 
> > -  -   -   -   -   -   -   -
> > Amano Returns
> > to the AGA Annual Convention
> > Nov 12, 13 & 14, 2004 -- Crystal City, Virginia
> > 
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster
> > http://search.yahoo.com
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:59:16 -0500
> > From: Billinet at aol_com
> > Subject: [APD] Re: Growing Glosso Update
> > To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
> > 
> > For the ich problem, I suggest that you increase the temperature to the
> > low 90's for a few days.  That has always worked for me, on those few
> > occasions that I've had to deal with it.
> > 
> > You have 6.5 watts per gallon!  That alone might be sufficient to raise
> > the temperature to the 90's.  I wonder if that enormous amount of light
> > could have stressed the fish to the extent that ich could wage a
> > successful attack.
> > 
> > Others here know more about light and most other plants things than I
> > do, but I think if you so much as look at your tank the wrong way you
> > will have a mess on your hands.  Maybe think about cutting back on the
> > light?
> > 
> > Bill
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:14:37 -0500
> > From: "Chuck H" <grendel at usit_net>
> > Subject: [APD] Re: What is Malay fern?
> > To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
> > 
> > Seweryn wrote:
> > 
> > > Anyone have any ideas of what it is? Have not found any info on it 
> > > searching through the web. Looks almost like branches from a short 
> > > pine tree mixed with compact, interlocked fern leaves.
> > 
> > Is this an aquatic fern?  I know of a fern that is fairly popular 
> > among some herp hobbyists called Malaysian Fern, but it's a terrarium 
> > plant that would not enjoy being submerged.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > While I am firing off questions, anyone know if a dechlorifier states 
> > > that it will neutralise heavy metals in the water, would it bind 
> > > certain constituents of PMDD?
> > 
> > I wouldn't worry about it.  These types of dechlor generally only 
> > sequester a very small amount of metal, and just because a metal is 
> > bound does not necessarily make it unavailable to the plants.  Some 
> > (all?) metals in trace ferts are already bound by chelators so that 
> > they stay in solution longer (e.g., iron EDTA).
> > --
> > Chuck Huffine
> > Knoxville, Tennessee
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:46:16 -0500
> > From: "Byron Yu" <byronjyu at hotmail_com>
> > Subject: [APD] Re: Growing Glosso Update
> > To: <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > 
> > Hi guys,
> > 
> > Bill wrote:
> > >You have 6.5 watts per gallon!  That alone might be sufficient to raise
> > 
> > >the temperature to the 90's.  I wonder if that enormous amount of light
> > 
> > >>could have stressed the fish to the extent that ich could wage a 
> > >successful attack. Others here know more about light and most other 
> > >plants things than I do, but I think if you so much as look at your 
> > >tank the wrong way you will >have a mess on your hands.  Maybe think 
> > >about cutting back on the light?
> > 
> > You should read this article... http://www.fitchfamily.com/lighting.html
> > It's a different approach to lighting and kind of throws aways that old
> > 3 watt/gallon rule. I believe in the theory cause when i only had 65
> > watts on my 20 gallon, my red plants were not turning red. I admit, even
> > based on that article i am still a bit on the high side of lighting, but
> > the plants are gorgeous, and the heat is controlled cause the lighting
> > source is 2 power compacts that have a fans on them. Besides, i think
> > the fish got ick not through stress, but through the introduction of
> > some new fish that had ick on them. 
> > 
> > which brings my to Candy's comment.I know i should have a
> > sick/quarantine tank.i may get one yet.. but i'm just "fishing" for
> > other suggestions. Turning up the heat to 85 degrees sounds like a plan,
> > but i'm afraid my plants can't handle that. I believe my cyperus herefi
> > and lace plants don't like high temps. I don't want to be cruel, but my
> > plants and shrimps are all important. From revance at indiana_edu Mon Mar
> > 8 10:09:59 2004
> > Received: from rockridge.uits.indiana.edu (rockridge.uits.indiana.edu
> > 	[129.79.1.74])
> > 	by otter.actwin.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id
> > i28F9wjY000707
> > 	for <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:09:58 -0500
> > Received: from dork.uits.indiana.edu (dork.uits.indiana.edu
> > [129.79.1.93])
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> > 	for <revance at localhost>; Mon,  8 Mar 2004 10:09:56 -0500
> > Message-ID: <1078758596_404c8cc4b9b4f at webmail.iu.edu>
> > Date: Mon,  8 Mar 2004 10:09:56 -0500
> > From: revance at indiana_edu
> > To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > Subject: Re: [APD] Re: Growing Glosso Update
> > References: <BAY9-DAV12qNi9DBGVH00013d12 at hotmail_com>
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> > 
> > I wouldn't imagine your plants would suffer too much from high
> > temperatures 
> > for a couple days. Many people with planted discus tanks keep their
> > temps in 
> > the mid to upper 80s all the time. I have also heard that raising the
> > salinity 
> > of your water with aquarium salt in addition to raising the temperature
> > is 
> > another way to eliminate ich... I tried it once and it seemed to do the
> > job 
> > (however, it wasn't a planted tank I did it on).  Good luck
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Quoting Byron Yu <byronjyu at hotmail_com>:
> > 
> > > Hi guys,
> > > 
> > > Bill wrote:
> > > >You have 6.5 watts per gallon!  That alone might be sufficient to 
> > > >raise the
> > > temperature to the 90's.  I wonder if that enormous amount of light 
> > > >could have stressed the fish to the extent that ich could wage a 
> > > successful attack.
> > > >Others here know more about light and most other plants things than I
> > 
> > > >do,
> > > but I think if you so much as look at your tank the wrong way you will
> > 
> > > >have a mess on your hands.  Maybe think about cutting back on the 
> > > light?
> > > 
> > > You should read this article... 
> > > http://www.fitchfamily.com/lighting.html
> > > It's a different approach to lighting and kind of throws aways that 
> > > old 3 watt/gallon rule. I believe in the theory cause when i only had 
> > > 65 watts on my 20 gallon, my red plants were not turning red. I admit,
> > 
> > > even based on that article i am still a bit on the high side of 
> > > lighting, but the plants are gorgeous, and the heat is controlled 
> > > cause the lighting source is 2 power compacts that have a fans on 
> > > them. Besides, i think the fish got ick not through stress, but 
> > > through the introduction of some new fish that had ick on them.
> > > 
> > > which brings my to Candy's comment.I know i should have a 
> > > sick/quarantine tank.i may get one yet.. but i'm just "fishing" for 
> > > other suggestions. Turning up the heat to 85 degrees sounds like a 
> > > plan, but i'm afraid my plants can't handle that. I believe my cyperus
> > 
> > > herefi and lace plants don't like high temps. I don't want to be 
> > > cruel, but my plants and shrimps are all important. 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com 
> > > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 16:13:09 -0000
> > From: Andrew McLeod <thefish at theabyssalplain_freeserve.co.uk>
> > Subject: [APD] Re: Growing Glosso Update
> > To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > 
> > On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:46:16 -0500, Byron Yu <byronjyu at hotmail_com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > If you look at the chart on the www.fitchfamily.com/lighting.html page, 
> > you see that over the 'typical' range of a planted tank (say 20-100 
> > gallons) the WPG rule (the red line) is not a terrible indicator of the 
> > lighting used by Amano, and the V^(2/3) fit (green line) is possibly
> > even 
> > better than the purple fit suggested (and works for larger tanks as
> > well). 
> > Maybe I'll try it on the data given in the AGA contest...
> > 
> > Just saying that the data is open to wide interpretation...
> > 
> > > Hi guys,
> > >
> > > Bill wrote:
> > >> You have 6.5 watts per gallon!  That alone might be sufficient to 
> > >> raise
> > >> the temperature to the 90's.  I wonder if that enormous amount of
> > light 
> > >> >could have stressed the fish to the extent that ich could wage a
> > >> successful attack.
> > >> Others here know more about light and most other plants things than I
> > >> do, but I think if you so much as look at your tank the wrong way you
> > 
> > >> will >have a mess on your hands.  Maybe think about cutting back on
> > the 
> > >> light?
> > >
> > > You should read this article... 
> > > http://www.fitchfamily.com/lighting.html
> > > It's a different approach to lighting and kind of throws aways that 
> > > old
> > > 3 watt/gallon rule. I believe in the theory cause when i only had 65 
> > > watts on my 20 gallon, my red plants were not turning red. I admit,
> > even 
> > > based on that article i am still a bit on the high side of lighting,
> > but 
> > > the plants are gorgeous, and the heat is controlled cause the lighting
> > 
> > > source is 2 power compacts that have a fans on them. Besides, i think 
> > > the fish got ick not through stress, but through the introduction of 
> > > some new fish that had ick on them.
> > >
> > > which brings my to Candy's comment.I know i should have a
> > > sick/quarantine tank.i may get one yet.. but i'm just "fishing" for 
> > > other suggestions. Turning up the heat to 85 degrees sounds like a
> > plan, 
> > > but i'm afraid my plants can't handle that. I believe my cyperus
> > herefi 
> > > and lace plants don't like high temps. I don't want to be cruel, but
> > my 
> > > plants and shrimps are all important.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > 
> > -- 
> > Andrew McLeod
> > thefish at theabyssalplain_freeserve.co.uk
> > 
> > This email was scanned carefully before transmission to remove any 
> > content, information or relevance.
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > 
> > 
> > End of Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20
> > *********************************************
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
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> 
> 
> 


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