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[APD] Using Hot Tub Chemicals to Balance Water
Is there a set range for alkalinity and calcium hardness that is best
for growing plants and that doesn't harm the fish?
If there a better range can I use hot tub chemicals to fix it. Calcium
Chloride and the Total Alkalinity booster.
Angel Computer Systems
Cory Pedersen
Network Engineer 3870 Bldg. A
Steilacoom Blvd. S.W.
Lakewood, WA 98499
cory at angelcom_com tel:
fax:
mobile: 253-584-5906
253-584-9279
253-468-8081
-----Original Message-----
From: aquatic-plants-request at actwin_com
[mailto:aquatic-plants-request at actwin_com]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:04 AM
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
Subject: Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 5, Issue 97
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"Re: Contents of Aquatic-Plants digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. RE: Vacation (Thomas Barr)
2. Re: Dosing 2-3x week vs daily dosing (David Aiken)
3. RE: Re: Excessive mail bouncing (Bob Crosby)
4. PH - CO2 indicator solution (Chris Hotte)
5. Subject: [APD] re: Excessive mail bouncing (CameronM)
6. Re: Fluorescent lights close to the water surface
(Dirk_Matthys at toyota-europe.com)
7. Re: Re: Excessive mail bouncing (S. Hieber)
8. Re: Re: Fluorescent lights close to the water surface -- or -
Heated debate (S. Hieber)
9. The addition of sodium bicarbonate (NaHC03) for kH
replenishment & long term salinity effects in the freshwater
planted aquarium. (Chris Hotte)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:45:27 -0500
From: "Thomas Barr" <tcbiii at earthlink_net>
Subject: [APD] RE: Vacation
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
> Hi,
> I have been using the Barr Method for two months and am very pleased
> with the results. I will be on vacation for a week and will be unable
> to dose. Will this change in routine for a week have any significant
> affect on plant growth or cause a return of the algae I was so happy
> to see disappear after a few weeks of the Barr Method. I just don't
> want to have any surprises when I return. Any suggestions or am I just
> worried over nothing.
> Dale
Dale, if you can, set out a little trace, and some dry fert's in a cup
etc, ask someone to dose once around mid week if possible.
If not, reduce the lighting wattage, or alternatively the time the
lights are on, say from 11hs down to 8.
Also, you can raise the lights away from the surface and that will
reduce lighting also.
It's not the end if you don't, it's only a week and nothing a prune,
water change and trim cannot take care.
I take vacations a lot, 10-18 days is starting to push things.
But I have some folks drop some stuff in for me.
Regards,
Tom Barr
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:01:44 +1000
From: David Aiken <daiken at iprimus_com.au>
Subject: Re: [APD] Dosing 2-3x week vs daily dosing
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
On 29/01/2004, at 9:38 AM, Clint Brearley wrote:
> I was wondering if there were any advantages/disadvantages to these
> dosing techniques. I don't mean practical considerations like
> remembering to dose and that sort of thing but more the biology and
> chemistry occurring. <snip>
I was dosing daily and changed it to a 3 day cycle (easy to track when
you use an electronic diary). The only difference I've noticed is in
the physical ease of doing it less often. The plants don't seem to have
cared. They just keep on growing the same as they used to, and look
just as healthy.
David Aiken
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 00:06:28 -0600
From: "Bob Crosby" <rtcrosby at CHARTER_NET>
Subject: RE: [APD] Re: Excessive mail bouncing
To: "'aquatic plants digest'" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
Maybe AOL is part of the problem....
-----Original Message-----
From: aquatic-plants-bounces+rtcrosby=charter_net at actwin.com
[mailto:aquatic-plants-bounces+rtcrosby=charter_net at actwin.com] On
Behalf Of Timchiro at AOL_COM
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 9:32 PM
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
Subject: [APD] Re: Excessive mail bouncing
I am another AOL user getting my APD bounced. It has happened to me
twice.
Tim
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 01:26:18 -0500
From: Chris Hotte <ecwh at cogeco_ca>
Subject: [APD] PH - CO2 indicator solution
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
Previously posted in 1996 to this list:
>
> Poor Man's CO2 Indicator
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> * *To*: *Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com *
> * *Subject*: *Poor Man's CO2 Indicator *
> * *From*: *Kevin Conlin <kcconlin at cae_ca> *
> * Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 14:13:17 -0500
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Inspired by the Dupla Diving-Bell CO2 indicator and by Gary Bishops's
>DIY CO2 controller, and of course by my Canadian $ paycheck, I put
>together a CO2 indicator for my tank that required essentially no
>cash outlay.
>
>Essentially, the indicator consists of a vial of distilled water with
>a known concentration of NaHCO3 and a few drops of bromthymol blue
>indicator solution from an inexpensive pH test kit. The vial is
connected to
>the tank water by an air gap as shown:
> ___________
> | ______ |
> | | | |
>----| |----| |-------- tank water line
> |--| |_|
> | | | | <- indicator solution
> | | |_|
>
>At equilibrium, the CO2 concentration in the vial equals the CO2
>concentration in the tank. The CO2 concentration, in turn, controls
>the pH and therefore the color of the solution in the vial. Once the
>pH has been determined from a color chart, the CO2 concentration can
>be computed or looked up in a table. Many variations on this design
>are possible, but resist the temptation to move the indicator solution
>out of the tank; if there's a temperature difference between the vial
>and the tank water, distillation will occur.
>
>The tricky part in all of this is the tiny amount of NaHCO3 needed to
>make the indicator solution. To get a pH of 7.0 at 15ppm CO2, 0.119g
>NaHCO3 must be added to 1.0l distilled water. Accurately measuring
>out 0.119g of anything requires a very good scale and a lot of care to
>avoid contamination. Of course, once you've made up a batch of
>solution, you can give most of it away to your friends; since my vial
>only holds 4ml, 249 of you can get some free from me (the catch is
>that you have to pick it up yourself). Three drops of bromthymol blue
>are about right for 4ml solution.
>
>The relationship between pH and ppm CO2 for this system is:
>
> ppm CO2 = 10^(8.18 - pH)
>
>Or, in convenient tabular form:
>
> pH ppm CO2
>
> 7.4 6
> 7.2 10
> 7.0 15
> 6.8 24
> 6.6 38
> 6.4 60
>
>The major problem with this indicator is its very slow response time
>(hours). I use mine to check the CO2 concentration no more than once
>or twice a day. A wider vial would increase the surface area of the
>indicator solution and improve the response time a bit. Getting a
>good color match can also be a problem with cheap pH test kits.
>
>Many thanks to Paul Sears for doing the math and mailing me exactly
>0.119g lab-grade NaHCO3. He also pointed out the problem of
distillation
>in my original design.
>--
>Kevin Conlin kcconlin at cae_ca "We're Canadians. We HAVE to be
cheap"
>Finger as332 at freenet_carleton.ca for PGP public key.
>It's sunny and -10C in Montreal today.
>
>
Indeed measuring out 119mg is tricky without an accurate scale. However,
a clever friend of mine worked out an easier method. You could simply
measure 11.9g of NaHC03 and make a 100mL distilled water solution. Then
you could accurately measure out 1mL easily enough and add that to .999L
distilled water. Peice of cake and the margin for error is considerably
lower than measuring out 119mg directly.
My only questions are, how long is the PH indicator good before it
requires replacement? Is this the method that comercial CO2 indicators
use? Has anyone pulled this off? Is it cost effective making the
solution vs purchasing it?
I do have a commercial unit on order (made by sera) because I'm at a
loss to find components to form required submersed chamber. I figure
once I have the chamber, I can make up my own replacement solution
forever using NaHC03 and PH indicator. I have the gut feeling and
experience to know that sera is going to marke the replacement indicator
solution for $$$ when it can made at home for pennies.
Insight anyone? What have I overlooked?
Chris.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:08:49 +0200
From: "CameronM" <cameronm at rse_co.za>
Subject: Subject: [APD] re: Excessive mail bouncing
To: <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
I have this problem continually! I really battle to get my mail to the
list. Sometimes they go through but I still receive undelivered
messages!!
Kind Regards
Cameron
>>Is anyone else getting bounced from the list because of
<<"excessive mail bouncing"?
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:50:31 +0100
From: Dirk_Matthys at toyota-europe.com
Subject: [APD] Re: Fluorescent lights close to the water surface
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
You may want to consider the impact of added heat. I have 75 G with 4 X
T8
58 W. They are very close to the water surface ( 1 inch or so ) and they
can replace my water heater during the day time, temperature will rise
1-3
degrees ( depending on the room temperature ). I had to build in a
ventilator to keep the water from becoming too hot in the summer because
of
this. Previously the lamps were more than 2 inch from the surface and I
had
no heating issues.
If you are going to fit 6 or 8 in a hood , it's going to be a lot of
heat,
even with fluorescents.
suisoman Dirk
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:57:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
Subject: Re: [APD] Re: Excessive mail bouncing
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
Maybe the bouncing could also be from this: some of these
wormy/virus items pick addresses from the addressbooks on
the computers they infect and then send out copies using
the stolen addresses as the "from" address. APD might be
bouncing those items and them perhaps, after enough
bounces, marks the address for bouncing -- jsut a thoght.
Scott H.
--- Timchiro at aol_com wrote:
> I am another AOL user getting my APD bounced. It has
> happened to me twice.
>
> Tim
> _______________________________________________
> Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
=====
S. Hieber
- - - - - - - - - -
Amano Returns!
at the AGA 2004 Annual Convention -- Nov -- Baltimore
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 03:18:27 -0800 (PST)
From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
Subject: Re: [APD] Re: Fluorescent lights close to the water surface
-- or - Heated debate
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
Rememeber folks, the amount of heat that a lamp gives off
is essentially the "wasted" input energy that isn't going
to visible light. Fluorescents are generally just a tad
less energy efficient than MHs. So the type of lighting (MH
vs Fluorescents) won't necessarily make much, if any, diff
in heat, watt for watt. The heat is more concentrated with
MHs but depending on your ventilation methods that might
not make any diff at all.
As a somewhat sloppy but ready-at-hand way to estimate the
heat from you lamp, take the rated input energy and
multiply by 0.65; that's the input energy going to heat,
give or take, for MHs and fluorescents.
Ime, raising the bulbs higher from the aquarium by placing
them higher within the hood, doesn't make a lot of diff.
Raising the hood does make a diff because it allows more
heat to "mix" into room air instead of going into the
aquarium first.
Also, what can make a very big diff is to use vented hoods
like the enclosures on the AHsupply.com web site. Those
relatively large vents that run the length of the hood
allow a lot of heat to escape via convection provided one
allows a point of entry for room air near the bottom of the
hood -- for example, raising the rear of the hood up off
the glass 1/8" or 1/4" or putting vents in in the side
panels of the hood close to the bottom. In many cases, I
think fans can be avoided entirely this way.
Scott H.
Scott H.
--- Dirk_Matthys at toyota-europe.com wrote:
> You may want to consider the impact of added heat. I
> have 75 G with 4 X T8
> 58 W. They are very close to the water surface ( 1 inch
> or so ) and they
> can replace my water heater during the day time,
> temperature will rise 1-3
> degrees ( depending on the room temperature ). I had to
> build in a
> ventilator to keep the water from becoming too hot in the
> summer because of
> this. Previously the lamps were more than 2 inch from the
> surface and I had
> no heating issues.
> If you are going to fit 6 or 8 in a hood , it's going to
> be a lot of heat,
> even with fluorescents.
=====
S. Hieber
- - - - - - - - - -
Amano Returns!
at the AGA 2004 Annual Convention -- Nov -- Baltimore
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:56:45 -0500
From: Chris Hotte <ecwh at cogeco_ca>
Subject: [APD] The addition of sodium bicarbonate (NaHC03) for kH
replenishment & long term salinity effects in the freshwater
planted
aquarium.
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
I've been using NaHC03 to replenish lost kH buffering due to water
changes over the last year and a half or more. I'm wondering if this
might have an overall effect on the salinity of the freshwater planted
aquarium over time. I'm certain that too much salt will have a damaging
effect on the cell wall membranes of the plants. This was demonstrated
to me early on in grade school science class on simple vegetable matter.
My only question is to know if some of the added NaHCO3 breaks down into
NaCl.
Anyone have the chemical background to say yes or no? And if adding
NaHC03 over time is not a good idea, then would adding just Calcium
Carbonate (CaC03) be a sufficient replacement? I happen to have an
unlimited source of free technical grade CaC03. (No I can't supply
everyone. You can buy it by the 50lb bag if you like however).
- Chris.
------------------------------
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End of Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 5, Issue 97
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