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[APD] RE: copper

> I had been considering using Paul's bleaching suggestions for the last few
> months but was trying to avoid it if something else would work and it
> like copper is that alternative.  I can understand leaving the copper for
> 3-5 days with blackout but am not sure why Paul left the covered tank for
> several days with bleach.  I would think that even after less than an
> everything would be dead unless it was for the gravel?  I think he left
> gravel in the tank to bleach it and then removed it to rinse.  This may
be a
> stupid question but if copper kills it without the extra hassle, why

It's good at killing stuff.
I think Paul was worried about places the water might not reach, and that
migth habor spores.
If you notice the level changes in tanks without Wet/dry obverflows, the
level varies, spores/filaments can survive for a few days out of water,
then later reinfect the tank.

I think this is a good point since you will want to work and clean off the
top regions where the water might not get to, but cleaning off this part of
the tank is not too bad.

> I could always leave the shrimp and most delicate plants out of the tank
> a week or so until the others have a chance to suck up any residual

I'd wait a a week or two(the 80-90%) or least 3(routine weekly water
change) large water changes.
That should dilute things way down. 

> If snails can have algae growing on their shells and you can't subject
> to copper or bleach, how do you get snails back into the tank?  Wouldn't
> lime, alum or peroxide kill them too?  For the record, I have no clue what
> alum is although some lady at the pharmacy said it was used for canning.

Aluminum sulfate. "Bright and Clear" is this in water. 
Snails can die:) Just let them and get some later on from other folks.
Ramshorns/MTS's are not hard to find. Also, pick them out and scrub them or
place them in darkness for a few weeks etc.
Mainly older snails will have the Cladophora on them so keep the young.

> I was referring to mini-riccia, pellia and mosses and posted:
> "There are several plants in my tank that can't handle bleach but I have
> never tried soaking them in peroxide, alum or lime to eradicate it." 
> Tom posted:
> "Lime would work well I would think for these plants."

> This sounds great, I think I've read  3 sources of lime so far 1) bags at
> Home Depot for the yard, 2) hydrated lime (Home Depot?), 3) Lime-It (pet
> store?)  I have no preference on which one but if you have a
> ratio of product to water suggestion (or do you even dilute the liquids)
> time period I would certainly try it.

I'm leary of suggesting that these will be 100% effective on these plants.
I'd pick through the these plants very carefully, Dip them in tap water and
a dilute lime bath(1-2 table spoons per liter) and then rinse with tap

These plants are perfect for harboring Algae and I'll typically remove
almost all of plant material and keep only a tiny well picked through
I've tried drying, blackout etc but none of this works to separate out this
algae from plants like these.
You might try putting the plants in a low light, Excel enriched tank and
see if the alga relents. John had suggested this and I think there's
something to it, less light and these plants tend to get alone, while this
algae does like higher light.

I've also beaten this alga by letting Pearl grass over take it and block
out the light below. The algae still lives below, but when you prune, you
can get most in not all by discarding the lower portion that has the alga

> Just for your enjoyment, the cladophora ball in my tank got this awful
> cladophora on it.  You would not believe the looks you get at the LFS when
> you tell them you have a problem, your cladophora has cladophora.  :)

You can wipe this off fairly easily.
All algae you see in the tank has smaller algae on them.

You may consider ionic copper and a test kit for this treatment. 

This method was namely for green water instead of blowing 80-120$ for a
UV/Diatom, but with some care, it should help beat back some species that
are particularly troublesome for some folks. 

Tom Barr

> Thanks again!
> Daphne

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