[APD] RE: methods/water changes/plant biomass

["Thomas Barr" <tcbiii at earthlink_net>]

> No, I keep moderate to bright light, moderate to high C02, and fertile
> substrate with moderate water dosing. Moderate water changes. If thats
> mixing methods, then fine, thats what I do. You seemed determined to
> classify it as either non C02  or C02 based.

No, you suggested that your method is "easier" than what I was suggesting
for someone and that my large water change idea is too much work.
So I could say the same thing for an aquascaped tank vs a grower's garden.
Why aquascape at all?
Easier is a relative term.
"Fertile" substrate is also a relative term.
Compared to some of my past tanks, my present substrates are very
rich/fertile.
I also never suggested that adding Tabs to the substrates(except NH4) was
in any way harmful, I said it was not_needed_.
I have suggested repeatedly in the past that adding your own agar/gelatin
based ferts would work very well. 

Heating cables are not needed but they will not hurt.
Perhaps you may get a  little less frequent dosing with decent/acceptable
plant health adding NO3/PO4/more traces.
But no different than a flourite and water column dosing.
I know because I have done both methods very well.....not just one method.
I know and understand the limits of both.
You would not be saying what you are if you had this knowledge.
Substrates all contain the same stuff in one form or another in order to
grow plants well.

There are no "secrets".

> I say it does not have to be an
> either or. I can do moderate water changes and still have high light and
> C02.I can use moderation without limiting myself to a low tech low light
> tank. Why can't you see that?

Err... I did not suggest your method caused ich, stress on fish and mymid
of other issues for the reason not to do the method I suggested.
I also acknowledge we all do less than 50% weekly water changes every once
in while, we all slack off and that tanks can handle it.
I say more water changes are good vs doing less with CO2.
They certainly will not harm a plant tank which seems to be your claim.

New folks are better off re setting tanks.
As the planted aquarist matures, they can eye ball the tank, and get a feel
for how much is needed for their tank and their routines.
New folks do NOT have this experience yet.
Also, many EXPERIENCED folks have algae issues, mostly from NOT dosing
enough nutirents or adding enough CO2. Sometimes poor quality test kits
cause a fair amount of uneeded worry. This gets folks very often even with
a tank they assume they "know" and have added the same routine amounts to
for a long peroid.

This often occurs when the plant biomass is much smaller after a big prune
or the plant tank is not pruned for awhile the plant biomass is much higher
than normal.
Demand for nutrients/CO2 etc are greater or much less in both of these
situations with the same tank. When faced with these types of variables,
the methods I often suggest work better than those you are suggesting.

You can work and keep ahead of the game or you can whip the tank back into
shape every few months/weeks etc and the method I suggest work better for
that than anyone's method to date.
Nice tanks take work and patience no matter what method.
There is no free lunch. 

> >>Not all newbies want the same things.
> Each person is different.
> Let them decide ...............then guide.<<
>
> That sounds like good advice. That seems to me what I have been telling
you
> all along.

No, you've interjected other things that are not true.
I would guide someone to their goal, non CO2, high light CO2, just a minor
tweak, reduced water changes etc.
Each tweak has a trade off.
I'm not particularly partial to any method.
They each have their own beauty in balance.

> I understand what you are saying most of the time. I know your method is
> based on your own experience and know how. I bow to your "decades and
> decades and decades" of experience... (I thought you were only around 30
> years old Tom, how did you manage that? :) )

I worked in a LFS when I was between 7-12 years old. I vacuumed the floor,
cleared box filters, bagged fish, cleaned bird/herp cages, got to train
parrots et al. 
I worked and liked it. Got paid 2$ hr cash, 3$ hr credit. I worked for Ron
Siamunic at the Fish Gallery in IN.
No, I am older than 30. 
You are now patronizing me and accusing me of, at the bare minimum,
hyperbole.
Your assumptions about my personal life only reflect back onto you.

> My only beef was that you come
> across pretty strong as having the only answers. I believe there are other
> working alternatives. I apologize if I misinterpreted you.

Yep, there are other methods.But plants grow for only certain reasons.
There' no magic.
They still need the same things. 
That's not a method, that's just a fact.
The nutrients will come from the substrate or the water column, there are
no other places. 
You can add a little more to the substrate to get out of dosing a few
things so much.
Not that big of a deal nor that different if you have a good eye.
But for newer folks, this may not be as good an approach.

Suggesting large water changes is a better approach. Dosing the water
column where they can test if they want, or not need to test at all is a
very good advantage(and not just for the new person!).
With moderate/smaller/less frequent water changes, they are more likely to
over dose/need to test/more stress on the fish if these occur etc.
 It is more difficult to achieve a certain range, requires more testing and
more experience with plants and indicators.
For a newbie I feel this is a better way or if there is an algae issues or
a deficiency.
Many folks come here with these type of problems.
It fixes the problem without testing and guessing about many unknowns.

> Robert Paul Hudson

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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