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[APD] RE: Never said dat

> I beg to differ that your way is the only method available for high light
> CO2 enriched tanks. 

How __clear__ do I have to make this?
I NEVER said it was the only way.

And what method is it that I use? Non  CO2/CO2? Soil and/or Peat?low/high
light? Flourite/onyx? Mulm? Sand? Snail crap?, Heating cables? RFUG?
Amano's soils? Laterite?Kitty litter? Turface? I've used all of these
methods extensively and to a very high level. I've mixed and matched. 

Oh, add Saltwater plants to this list too.   

I suggested to several folks on this list to try frozen soil cubes to
enrich their substrate on more than one ocassion recently. 
I've also talked a fair amount about using agar and fertilizers for slow
diffusion of nutrients from the substrate.
I've suggested Kitty litter recently.
I've suggested to several folks to try a non CO2 tank, folks that have been
die hard CO2 users.
I tell virtually everyone to add mulm and peat to their what? Their

And it's not MY method. It's Steve Dixon's, Jeff Kropp's, Paul Sears, Kevin
Conlin and myself.
I just put a few thing together. They guided and did most of the
work/suggestions. I just modified a few things.  

> One of the (but not the _only_) AGA contestant
> winners is _very successful_ by using his own method. Incredibly high
> light (at least 4w/g power compact, usually higher), no N or P dosing, 

Plants are not going to magically get P and N from nowhere, it has to come
from somewhere.
Fish waste, tap water, substrate.
Almost certainly a combo of the three.
You may not have enough fish to supply the plants(But you would if you used
non CO2 methods), you may not have enough NO3, PO4 in your tap water(But
some folks sure do like the Dutch "magic water"), you may try rich
substrates(nothing illegal here), but careful if you pull plant roots up
and do a water change afterwards. Not a bad habit for any type of tank.

All three methods can looking stunning if you work hard at it.
Look no further than pre CO2 plant tank contest from the 50-60's.
I think most everyone does use BOTH the substrate and the water column
dosing methods in almost all tanks.
I do.
This person is no different, they just don't dose P and N to the water
column with KNO3/PO4, but it is coming from somewhere and substrate will
not last too long, after a year or so it'll be fairly depleted I'd say if
that's the only place where the nutrients are coming from. If the tap has
some that can and does play a large role but this person is dosing a fair
amount of traces, K etc. It's not too much to suggest adding KNO3, PO4 etc
and the tank may improve even more so. 
Or stay the same from  the additions.
He can try it and see easy enough, it should not produce algae.

Some of the nicest plants I had came from tanks with less than 2/w a gal.
I've also had some stunning non CO2 tank plants also.
I grow Crypts emergent, these are in soil and extremely rich substrates.
But I can also grow them well submersed also. Same for low/high light, non
Folks can get plants to grow well with more weight on the substrate or the
water column, but we all have to accept that the plants get some of their
nutrients from both regions. Aquatic macrophytes can grow in a variable
environment and pays to nab nutrients from both the water column and the
This has been shown in a number of recent studies. 

This issue is not so polar/black and white. 

I have soil tanks, non CO2 tanks, add some peat/mulm to every tank.
No nothing added to non CO2 tanks for six months except fish food.
So there. 

I'm more substrate than you are:) Nanhanah nah!:)

> high
> K+/Fe/micros dosing, weekly water changes, fertile substrate. His plants
> are far and away the best I have ever received. And I have received plants
> from MANY people (including you... from which I got dwarf lobelia and 
> hottonia).
> I am not saying his way is the better way, but obviously there is
> to be
> said that there isn't one _best_ way judging by the quality of his tanks
> health
> of his plants.
> Carlos

Certainly. I did say that the method of water changes + dosing afterwards,
estimating one/two more times during the week certainly improved life for
many folks.
It also makes it much easier to point to and adjust/correct any issues
folks might have. 
It's cheaper for many folks also.
If I put my mind to it, I can produce some very nice tanks with any method.
But some of this has to do with me, and less with the method itself.

So lessy hear more about this tank's substrate, tap water and fish load. 
You have peaked my curiosity so pony up with the info.
Tap water(NO3/PO4), fish load(feeding/foods/load/type), and soil/substrate
type etc

Tom Barr

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