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[APD] RE: Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 1, Issue 16
I'm home most all day, since I work out of a home office. Just give me a
call and come on over.
-----Original Message-----
From: aquatic-plants-bounces at actwin_com
[mailto:aquatic-plants-bounces at actwin_com]On Behalf Of
aquatic-plants-request at actwin_com
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 10:59 AM
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
Subject: Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 1, Issue 16
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. re: cork backgrounds (Patrick Pounds)
2. Re: Re: chillers and cooling -- ofr - My Options Sort Of
Dried UP (S. Hieber)
3. Re: Re:EcoComplete -- or - Completing comments on Onyx and
Eco (S. Hieber)
4. Re: Marine tanks (Thomas Barr)
5. Praziquantel (sdgoett at att_net)
6. RE: Re: Marine tanks (Ruddy Douglass)
7. RE: re: cork backgrounds (Gary Whitt)
8. Re: Wicked screensaver (wcwirla at earthlink_net)
9. Re: Cork Backgrounds (Phil Edwards)
10. Re: Re: Cork Backgrounds (S. Hieber)
11. marine planted tanks (Joe Anderson)
12. Viruses and worms.... (Rex Grigg)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 8:15:10 -0500
From: "Patrick Pounds" <lbsfarms at earthlink_net>
Subject: [APD] re: cork backgrounds
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
I would like to know how you put the cork in an established
tank. How is it attached to the back of the aquarium?
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 06:45:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
Subject: Re: [APD] Re: chillers and cooling -- ofr - My Options Sort
Of Dried UP
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
I wouldn't be surprised that it *can* work, just that it
would be a practical solution for most folks where the
ambient temp is like 90 degrees F and the desired tank temp
is less than 88 degrees F. Getting down 5 or ten degrees F
below ambient temp is much more difficult. Fans alone
would never do the job once the ambient temp is above the
desired tank temp.
Evap cooling can do it if you can do enough of it to lower
your tank temps *and* not lose all your CO2 by the method
you use to expose your water to evaporation *and* not steam
up your "ambience" to an undsireable level. Very low
initial humidity, which yo note that you have, ought to
help a lot with each of these things. I haven't looked up
the figures recently but it takes a heck of a lot of
evaporation to cool a tank against a ten degree
differential.
I've always suggested trying fans first, and I mean a
simple room fan not tubeaxial fans built into your hood.
I'd suggest the room fan for just about anyone to try --
most folks have a fan around the house and if not, can get
one for about $20 at a dept, discount, or home center
store.
I'm personally much more hesitant to suggest evaporative
cooling, especially for significant heat situations. Oh,
it's an option, definitely, if you're trying to save money
rather than spend on a chiller.
I avoided chillers for a long time for several reasons, but
finally "gave in" after various attempts with fans,
lowering the ambient temp (ghastly expense!), lighting
changes, a few other things. Then I got chillers and
learned to stop worrying and love the sun. If the chillers
didn't work for my situation, I would have considered
evaporative cooling and all that humidity it brings. Of
course, without low ambient humidity, evap cooling acan
still be made practical -- there are dryers and heat
exchangers and methods of ducting the moisture outside.
But, imo, at some point, it's just easier to plug in a
chiller -- in the same sense as it's easier to put hoods of
lights on my tank rather than build a skylight and bay
window.
It used to be you had to consider spending at least $800 to
get a decently made chiller and thermostat. No longer so.
Scott H.
--- Justin Collins <jucollin at du_edu> wrote:
> You'd be surprised. When I had my 180 gallon reef
> running with 1200 watts
> of metal halides, a 7" running over the surface of the
> sump could drop the
> temp 2 degrees or more without much trouble, and that was
> in 100+ degree
> Denver heat with no A/C. The dryness here probably helps
> significantly, but
> the principle is the same. The only cooling in the
> completely enclosed
> canopy was a pair of 4" fans.
>
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 07:00:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
Subject: Re: [APD] Re:EcoComplete -- or - Completing comments on Onyx
and Eco
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
Oh yeah. Thanks for the reminder, Wayne. I forgot to
mention KH. In my two 20g tanks I did put a handfull of
peat on the glass under the ecocomplete in one tank and
under the onyx in the other. The pH tracked very closely
in both tanks. My tap runs about 7.0-7.2 pH. It was
running about 7.1-7.2 when I was setting up and measuring
th 20g tanks -- I mesured for several months. The
Ecocomplete tank rose to and held at about 7.3 pH and the
Onyx tank rose to and held at 7.4. No big deal either way,
imo. So I quit measuring and went on to other things.
Just to clarify my prior comments, Ecocomplete was not bad
at gripping new plantings, Onyx was just much better. The
smaller grain size seemed to make it easier for the Onyx to
fall in and cover the roots as the forceps is removed --
less wiggling involved of the sort Gary Lange described at
the AGA meeting at the NEC Convention last spring.
I have found Ecocomplete more likely to be in a lfs.
Scott H.
<wayne at waswa_fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> I have recently used this product on a 200 litre tank. I
> must say I am
> very pleased with it so far. Tipping it straight from
> the bag into the
> tank was quite a sublime experience :-) I very much like
> the black
> colour, and I have been pleasantly surprised to see that
> the colours of
> some of the fish have significantly darkened &
> intensified in response
> to the substrate colour (SAEs & Clown Loaches in
> particular). The
> particles have a rounded finish and range from approx
> 1-3mm. I have
> found the product's ability to 'grip' newly planted
> stems, glosso etc to
> be excellent.
>
> Only drawback so far is that, despite assurances on the
> pack that this
> would not happen, the KH has risen from 4 to 8. It seems
> similar to
> Onyx in this respect. I would follow Tom Barr's
> recommendation for
> adding some peat to the bottom layer if I were to use it
> again. I
> expect the KH will return to normal over time, we shall
> see.
>
> EcoComplete comes in packs of 9kg, but it is packed wet
> so I think you
> get about the same quantity in a pack as a 7kg bag of
> Flourite - so you
> can still use Jared's Flourite calculator if you want to
> work out how
> much you need.
>
> For any UK members interested in using this product, I
> bought it from
> The Water Zoo in Peterborough.
>
> Regards
> Wayne
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 10:15:14 -0400
From: Thomas Barr <tcbiii at earthlink_net>
Subject: [APD] Re: Marine tanks
To: <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> From: "Ruddy Douglass" <ruddy at maine_rr.com>
> Subject: [APD] Marine Planted Tank
> To: "aquatic plants digest" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
>
> I'm curious to where Tom Barr's marine tank stands (And anyone else's)? I
> have a small Marine tank at home and I'm interested in what works and such
> and the experiences so far.
>
> -ruddy
It's died back some. I left for 2 weeks several times this summer and the
tanks have been neglected, not to mention the heat of 90F+. Marine tanks
don't like that nor do marine plants. But there's little I can do about it
at the moment. Some of the calcareous algae have done well though. A few of
the red algae have faired well.
The sensitivity is greater in dosing. I've been able to dose NO3 liberally
and even PO4. But if I also add iron, I get diatoms and small reds on the
glass and other places I don't want it. Very little algae grows on the
plants either way.
It'll be awhile till I get better successes but I have gained some valuable
knowledge that most marines folks would not dare to do. Most keep plants as
incidental occupants in marine reef tanks growing off of live rock or use it
for utilitarian purposes for NO3/PO4 removal.
The Tank is still doing okay but later as it cools off, the tank should do
better. I could have taken some photo's but I don't have a digital camera
and I have not gotten around to using my 35mm.
While some might consider the tank nice etc, so far to me it has been a
failure likely from me monkeying with everything/the heat. But I may
consider a chiller for the summer heat later. But the failure have simply
opened up a new area for me and that needs work done.
The marine planted tank is not as robust as far as nutrient dosing is
concerned. It will need finer tuning.
Regards,
Tom Barr
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 14:13:09 +0000
From: sdgoett at att_net
Subject: [APD] Praziquantel
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
What is the dose for praziquantel? Are there fish or inverts that are
sensitive to it?
Scott
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:13:26 -0400
From: "Ruddy Douglass" <ruddy at maine_rr.com>
Subject: RE: [APD] Re: Marine tanks
To: "aquatic plants digest" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
So where did you acquire the plants that you had - if memory serves at one
point you listed large number of species in the tank?
I've been looking around and can find VERY few different species locally or
online and they are all extremely expensive (as is everything in SW
aquariums)
What I have growing now is basically hitch hikers on the rock - and through
no effort of my own are growing fine
-----Original Message-----
From: aquatic-plants-bounces at actwin_com
[mailto:aquatic-plants-bounces at actwin_com]On Behalf Of Thomas Barr
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 10:15 AM
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
Subject: [APD] Re: Marine tanks
> From: "Ruddy Douglass" <ruddy at maine_rr.com>
> Subject: [APD] Marine Planted Tank
> To: "aquatic plants digest" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
>
> I'm curious to where Tom Barr's marine tank stands (And anyone else's)? I
> have a small Marine tank at home and I'm interested in what works and such
> and the experiences so far.
>
> -ruddy
It's died back some. I left for 2 weeks several times this summer and the
tanks have been neglected, not to mention the heat of 90F+. Marine tanks
don't like that nor do marine plants. But there's little I can do about it
at the moment. Some of the calcareous algae have done well though. A few of
the red algae have faired well.
The sensitivity is greater in dosing. I've been able to dose NO3 liberally
and even PO4. But if I also add iron, I get diatoms and small reds on the
glass and other places I don't want it. Very little algae grows on the
plants either way.
It'll be awhile till I get better successes but I have gained some valuable
knowledge that most marines folks would not dare to do. Most keep plants as
incidental occupants in marine reef tanks growing off of live rock or use it
for utilitarian purposes for NO3/PO4 removal.
The Tank is still doing okay but later as it cools off, the tank should do
better. I could have taken some photo's but I don't have a digital camera
and I have not gotten around to using my 35mm.
While some might consider the tank nice etc, so far to me it has been a
failure likely from me monkeying with everything/the heat. But I may
consider a chiller for the summer heat later. But the failure have simply
opened up a new area for me and that needs work done.
The marine planted tank is not as robust as far as nutrient dosing is
concerned. It will need finer tuning.
Regards,
Tom Barr
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:15:23 -0400
From: "Gary Whitt" <gwhitt at koedcandies_com>
Subject: RE: [APD] re: cork backgrounds
To: "aquatic plants digest" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
My preferred method would be to take the tank down, clean the glass and
silicone it to the glass. A lot of trouble, for sure.
I slapped together everything I think I know about the subject at the
following link:
http://www.koedcandies.com/Cork.htm
I hope it helps.
Gary Whitt
in Buffalo - the city of insurmountable opportunities.
-----Original Message-----
From: aquatic-plants-bounces at actwin_com
[mailto:aquatic-plants-bounces at actwin_com]On Behalf Of Patrick Pounds
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 9:15 AM
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
Subject: [APD] re: cork backgrounds
I would like to know how you put the cork in an established
tank. How is it attached to the back of the aquarium?
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Aquatic-Plants mailing list
Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 7:39:43 --0700
From: <wcwirla at earthlink_net>
Subject: [APD] Re: Wicked screensaver
To: <Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com>
See the attached file for details
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 10:58:17 -0400
From: "Phil Edwards" <biotypical at hotmail_com>
Subject: [APD] Re: Cork Backgrounds
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
Bill,
I used a mixture of Flourite and Estes' "Bits of Walnut" gravel in about a
80/20 mix. What really got the plants going in my estimation was the use of
a Reversed UGF as my filter. The additional flow of nutrients to the
plants' roots made them explode! After I took the tank down I moved some of
the walkeri to another aquarium with lots of nutrients but no UGF and they
didn't grow nearly as well.
Best,
Phil
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 08:32:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
Subject: Re: [APD] Re: Cork Backgrounds
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
Neat. A Rug Gardener -- we don't hear from many of those.
How much do most plants use roots for nutrients when the
leaves are right in the soup to begin with????
If roots move enough mateiral through the substrate to
obviate substrate heating cables, wouold not the same apply
to rugs?
I don't doubt the viability of a planted rug tank -- I jsut
wonder if root feeding is the reason it can work. . . . .
info anyone?
Scott H.
--- Phil Edwards <biotypical at hotmail_com> wrote:
> Bill,
>
> I used a mixture of Flourite and Estes' "Bits of Walnut"
> gravel in about a
> 80/20 mix. What really got the plants going in my
> estimation was the use of
> a Reversed UGF as my filter. The additional flow of
> nutrients to the
> plants' roots made them explode! After I took the tank
> down I moved some of
> the walkeri to another aquarium with lots of nutrients
> but no UGF and they
> didn't grow nearly as well.
>
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 15:54:35 +0000
From: "Joe Anderson" <the_submariner at hotmail_com>
Subject: [APD] marine planted tanks
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
Ruddy asked about how ppl's marine planted tanks were doing...
(so here i am coming out of lurk mode after many long months)
Mine is doing well, i have found through Tom's and others assistance (see
reefcentral macroalgae forum for more info) that good light and
fertilization is key.
Course every algae is different and some thrive and some dont'.. u just have
to play w/ different ones (if and when u cna find them)
sounds a lot like fw planted doesn't it?? ;-)P
im a notoriously lazy water tester.. in fact.. i can't remember the last
time i tested anything.. except of course the salinity thats an easy one..
they make nitrate and pH kits like that and i may start testing again...
but i have noticed one thing in particular that will affect fragile macros
and that is the salinity level. Let it fall too much and some will die off.
Heat also can be of consequence in like manner..
i keep my calcium levels high.. enough to grow heliopora (blue plate) and
some other hard corals as well as keep a good growth of corraline algae on
the back glasss ... tank is only 6 months old right now.. and it is doing
really well.
i willl post some pics to my members section at my clubs website very
soon...
good luck
Joe Anderson, OKCAA
Longest Running Aquarium Club in Oklahoma - Since 1949!
Oklahoma City Aquarium Association
http://petsforum.com/okcaa/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OK-AquariumAssociation/
Message: 13
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 07:44:30 -0400
From: "Ruddy Douglass" <ruddy at maine_rr.com>
Subject: [APD] Marine Planted Tank
To: "aquatic plants digest" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
I'm curious to where Tom Barr's marine tank stands (And anyone else's)? I
have a small Marine tank at home and I'm interested in what works and such
and the experiences so far.
-ruddy
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 08:59:08 -0700
From: Rex Grigg <rex at dsl-only_net>
Subject: [APD] Viruses and worms....
To: Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
Some one that has the APD email address in their address book is
infected with one or more viruses and/or worms. This IMHO is
inexcusable. Running a computer without up to date anti-virus software is
akin to sky diving without a parachute or like removing the front door to
your house and piling your valuables right inside the door. And if you
have a broadband connection you should be running a fire wall. I have
three computers connected to a broadband connection at home and when the
"blaster" worm was going full force I was being port scanned about 2-5
times a second on my three active static IP addresses. Just for giggles I
took a spare machine I had laying around and connected it to the broadband
connection. It took seven seconds for this machine to become infected. If
you do not have a fire wall and a virus scanner then please go to
http://housecall.trendmicro.com/ or http://www.ravantivirus.com/scan/ and
have your computer scanned for viruses. Once your machine is clean
disconnect it from your Internet connection until you have installed a
virus checker and a fire wall.
Always practice safe hex.
In Heaven We were formed...
In Hell We were trained..
On Earth We were released...
United States Marine Corps
Semper Fi
------------------------------
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End of Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 1, Issue 16
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