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Re: neglective and non carbon enriched tanks

> From: "Robert T Ricketts" <rtricketts at erols_com>
> Cannot resist rising to the bait.

Aye, it was bait with some jest( my own and other's admission of
neglective behavior:-). But I cannot put every tonal inflection
in (rapid)type. I apologize for not putting the little happy
face at the end. I was hoping to catch someone with a sense of
humor about their own human failings which are inherent in all
of us.

> Even when someone is trying to be kind, the negative
> connotations come out:


Do you really think I am attacking all non CO2 tank owners here?
Was that really my purpose here? Heck, I'm commending and
supporting them, even the "neglective" ones:) 
It was a general admission that we all have an issue with, we
all are at some time, some point in this hobby __neglect__ our
tanks (that feeling of guilt), some more than others. Non carbon
enriched plant tanks are less work/maintenance as a general

> "The non CO2 method is for the truly neglective individual."

> Sorry, I take exception to that. 

I don't. Folks neglect tanks, some more than others. Many will
keep planted tanks regardless of habits. You cannot stop that,
only work around it. I did not say "everyone" that keeps non
carbon enriched planted tanks are "neglective" nor did I say it
was "required". I was talking about one type of person that
keeps planted tanks.

Now where's the issue with that? Which method(Carbon or not)
would be more successful this type of person?

This type of person is not lazy/bad/part of some Axis of Evil,
they just for many reasons, don't get around to maintaining
their tank.

Maybe they are a CEO and don't have the time:-)Maybe they are
mothers and fathers with younger kids. But they can admit to it
and be honest about it so they can plan their hobby so it is
more successful to their goal.   

Relative to a CO2 plant tank: not doing a water change for
months on end I would certainly call neglect(I'd feel
guilty/somewhat sheepishly) with only water top offs for
evaporation. Dirty overflowing filters. No dosing at all. No
pruning. Your methods may be different, but mine sure work good
for me and I can/have duplicate/d them. 

I have had customers exactly like this(and a CEO or two/three).
They get the non CO2 tanks, they admit they don't tend their
tanks. They get a nice tank and achieve their goal. They are
"truly neglective individuals". We laugh about it but work
around it. This does NOT work with the CO2 enriched tanks. I
know, I've tried and pull a few teeth in the process with
customers and my own tanks.
There are many methods and types of folks keeping non CO2
planted tanks.
Many folks often ask for, "I don't want to do nothing(pruning,
CO2) and keep plants and I don't do any water changes except
once in a great while".

This I can work with if they set it up right from the start.

Okay, now try this method with CO2/higher light?
There's going to be trouble. 
There are many folks out there that don't want to do anything
for their tanks beyond the minimum. Non carbon enriched is
certainly for them vs carbon enriched tanks. 

I did not say "everyone" that choses non carbon enriched tank is
a neglective individual. 

> Electing not to use CO2 is
> not
> "neglective", 

Naw, see, here's were you bit into the bait. I said it for the
neglective individual(vs the CO2 enriched tank), a personality
If you like more work and maintenance, you can always do more if
you choose(any method).  
I did not say "electing not to use CO2 is neglective". 
You are looking for implied meaning from one sentenace sound
bite and not looking at the rest of what I said.

You chose only to comment about the one thing you felt was
negative(which to me is a positive) rather than all the
positives I did say in the post regarding non carbon enriched
methodologies. Why even bother? 

> it is a personal choice which does not merit
> negative
> comments. 

You see the glass as half empty, I see this as half full and an
advantage for non CO2 tanks. They are able to handle more abuse
and neglect and still come out nicer generally unlike the
CO2/carbon enriched tanks.

I see this not as "negative" comment at all but as an advantage.
We all neglect things at some point.
You may simply not like the term "neglect". I'm a bit more
comfortable perhaps than you with this term for a number of
reasons and use it more freely.

If you neglect tanks a lot and have propensity for it(you know
who you are), the non CO2/carbon is a truely a better option for
you vs a CO2/cabron enriched tank. You can really neglect the
non CO2/carbon much more than CO2/carbon enriched tank. 
That was more to the point and in the context of the rest of
what I was saying. Laugh about your human failing a bit more and
plan around them. Want less work or....tend to "neglect" the
tanks often? Try non CO2/carbon tanks or try less light etc.
You'll be happier. I am.

> Robert

Tom Barr

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