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- To: <Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com>
- Subject: Re: reintroduction
- From: Thomas Barr <tcbiii at earthlink_net>
- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:29:00 -0400
- In-reply-to: <200304161103.h3GB3Zdl002714 at otter_actwin.com>
- User-agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
I guess this issue will not go away. Even though I will donate the fish to
I received about 30 emails: about 5 flames, 6 showing concern but saying
they'd take the fish off my hands, most of rest saying "don't do it" but
never saying why.
Maybe I can post them into submission:-)
My good friend Shireen said (who has now acquired a bird foot fetish):
> Florida's semi-tropical climate makes the problem of non-
> indigenous species introductions to the wild especially insidious.
Very much so. But now bacteria, spores, water molds, are on the list? These
are ubiquitous. You cannot even see them. How would you know even? Those
shoes you hike in might carry something from your house near your tank to
the wild native environment.
Fish farms are exposed to huge numbers of various pathogens and are good
vectors for birds, wind, aquatic insects with terrestrial adult stages and
other vectors of dispersal.
Guess where some of these farms are? Florida. Plant farms also and the same
thing can happen there also. Those critters and vectors cannot be stopped
But this is okay?
I really think folks are simply not aware of the what issues go on here.
> Many pathogens are on the loose, but they're not necessarily
> everywhere. So there's still hope for keeping them out of the
> remaining bodies of freshwater that have not been affected.
Name one fish pathogen that's on the loose here that aquarium fish have that
the native fish here don't, that affects the ecosystem?
Birds easily transmit these to the various lakes, streams etc. All they have
to do it get wet and fly off to another lake stream etc. Or eat the fish and
crap elsewhere (parasite eggs are resistant to digestive tracks of the
You might want to argue for diseases not being ubiquitous in aquatic systems
but they are. Just like algae.
Please show some evidence that they are not. It's not that they cannot get
there, it's more a question of the environment that the fish live in.
Given good conditions and a weak host, most pathogens, exotic or not, have
You really think that your bird bath is immune from the birds or bugs? Every
place has birds and they all need water. Bugs are the most successful group.
Even temporary ponds and pools have a large diversity of
Many pathogens go through cycles, so you might not find them here in May
through Nov but come Dec, they are everywhere, even though there's no
vector, they were simply dormant and some one thinks that someone else lets
the pathogen loose etc around that time since it appears only during a
certain time of year. But really it's been there all along.
But will the pathogen be able to survive for the entire cycle?
There's the life history element of these pathogens to consider.
But not _one single person_ has brought _any_ of these issues up.
Like algae, many of these pathogens bloom when conditions are favorable.
Like algae, they can easily be moved around all over. Similar vectors also.
No one talks about that.
>> But let's ask another basic question: why do fish get diseases?
>> Diseases of fish are much like algae/poor plant health. When the fish
>> not been given good well balance diets, low stocking levels, good
>> quality, etc, they get sick.
> According to that logic, those of us who are in good health
> will never catch the flu.
Are you now a fish?:-) Heh, heh, I am.
The chances and risk of disease are in fact less.
Why do diseases affect the weak/old/young _the most_?
Common sense and science both prove this.
Maybe folks should do their part and keep better environments for their fish
if they feel so strongly about this issue?
Healthy people, environments, fish, plants............these are all good
things and goals.
> We can make an infinitely long list of things that humans are
> doing to damage the environment. But each of us has the
> power to make a small difference, be it driving more fuel
> efficient cars, to recycling, to supporting conservation causes,
> and even by keeping privately-owned captive fish (even if
> they're indigenous natives) out of wild ecosystems.
> It's a small
> gesture in the large scheme of things. But if enough people do
> it, we could make a difference.
Catch American. Quit buying those foreign fish:-)
I mean get to the root of the problem here. We can slow the introduction of
tropical diseases by not having tropical fish at all right? Outlaw outdoor
I keep only native fish now. Do your part, no matter how little... to
prevent and slow the spread of tropical fish diseases. Now it seems
unreasonable huh? No tropical fish? They are the source of the issue are
Nah, it's easier to spank Tom, he doesn't know what he's doing. He's only
doing his thesis work 6 miles from the location and the river is connected
to the same system and water shed, I mean who can trust an aquatic biologist
It's not the native fish that have the disease that they will introduce to
themselves. That's plain silly. I never said I'd take tropical and mix with
natives, I never said "everyone go out and do this," I never said put the
fish back into another area. I said when I was done, I could return them
back to the where they came. That's about all I said, the rest on other
folk's parts were assumptions.
And that's the heart of the matter.
But it's okay for folks to reintroduce fish into the wild where they once
where? This is going on and I know for a fact the fish have not been raised
in sterile disease pathogen free environments. What about those unknown
By removing the native *or* tropical fish, you upset the natural genetic
make up, you stress the fish that are there that you did not catch, You
might introduce some native disease into the cultured "enslaved" fish
population also. If you mix them with tropicals, you might introduce a
disease to the tropicals and someone might breed a fish and eventually it
may end up in the cultured trade..........
How many local populations of SW, FW, and other tropical animals have been
wiped out by this trade?
Those fish breeding pondsin Florida/Asia, you name it: you think they
control all the facilities with sterile conditions throughout so that none
Disturbing the ecosystem even by peeing in the water can cause certain algae
to bloom. Better stop that. One of those parasitic catfish might get lodged
How "much" risk is the real issue.
> Meanwhile, I'm going to gather all my birding friends together
> so we can sit in a large circle, hold hands, hum, and transmit
> a psychic message to all those big bad birdies in Florida,
> "please wipe your feet before entering the pond."
> - - shireen
Bird Foot Fetish!
Do you like the Blue Footed Booby? Is it your favorite?