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Re: borrowing fish/catching your own

> Tom:
> Where did you go for this great catch?

Santa Fe

> Also I know that releasing
> fish that have gone into a home system after they come out of the wild is not
> the greatest idea in some minds.

Grrrr.....(This is not directed at you Jim!so pardon this ..."some minds")

Rant mode "ON"

I'd like to hear "real" evidence to support these claims in Florida.
I've dealt with public health issues in the past. This is a fish health
issue. So let us look at the risk.

They might want to start with the Mosquito Abatement folks, then nail the
sport's fishing groups and their addition of bass/trout/panfish from all
over the country, the Army Core or Engineers, the Cement plant they have
planned here right in the middle of the most pristine water shed in the
state, the wastewater treatment plant discharge permits allowing 2ppm of MCL
of NH4 levels and all the development issues. Then those pond owners with
their introduce species all available to the bird populations (great vectors
BTW), the last 50 years worth of tropical fish that already exist here in FL
(We have plecos doing quite well in the St John's, Oscars etc).

The disease/parasites are _already here_ and _are ubiquitous_.
Get over the disease introduction idea here in FL in this area. It's already

Much like the algae, they are easily transferred via birds from ponds (all
those pond owners are guilty in this case, think of all the pond "diseases")
and the wide range of water birds which quite frankly, are everywhere here
in some form or another. Any bird excrement carries many potential eggs etc.
They easily carry parasite eggs/bacteria/viruses/Oomycota/ many small
aquatic insects, you name it. Any tank water dumped on the garden etc that
makes into the ground water can be transported to another area. The soil can
dry the wind can carry a number of particles.

Much of "the fear" already existed or have been here already and for a long
Let's not stop there. Let's go after the plants also. They can provide
plenty of surfaces for transfer.

But let's ask another basic question: why do fish get diseases?

Diseases of fish are much like algae/poor plant health. When the fish have
not been given good well balance diets, low stocking levels, good water
quality, etc, they get sick.

Diseases are there just waiting till something goes wrong, much like algae.
Poor environmental conditions cause fish stress.

For some odd reason, I have never had a disease in 15 years. Go figure. Well
fed happy homes for my fish. Low stocking levels, good well balance foods.
I've never had to use medications either.............

These fish all come from the same place. They are in a tank with no other
tropical fish etc. That's the point. I'm not going to go out and blow a ton
of $ for fish only to have to give them away a few months/year later.

Anyway, folks have asked for these fish when I leave. They have a home which
is fine by me.   

I don't keep any "hobby tropical fish", just native net caught.

Buying tropicals will promote the potential for introductions into the
environment(Someone will let one loose and then the game is over), should we
stop the importation of Tropical fish from the wild?

It's a risk, after all, right? I mean where do these tropical pathogens come
from in the first place? Let's stop it at the source : ban all tropical
fish. Other wise your control program here is never going to work. It might
slow it down but how much? Not much at all.

Same deal for plants? Ban them?


I find some serious fatal flaws with this reasoning.

The real root causes of the issues for the disease(Environmental) and the
real vectors(birds, folks keeping tropical fish).
These have much higher risks.

So why are you not telling folks to not keep these tropicals?

Please, do tell.

Rant mode "OFF".

> If you need to get rid of them before you
> move, call me I'll come over to your place and pick them up.  I have some
> native setups that they'll fit into.  If I don't have space, I'll put them
> into the 45H that I gave to a local community center for kids.

Great, they are now yours afterwards. I mentioned I'd give them back to the
river, folks stepped up to take them, sounds good to me.

> I was on duty this weekend, but next weekend or the weekend after, I
> want to check out the Hatchet Creek on Waldo Rd (RT. 24) between Gainesville
> and Waldo to see what's there, and maybe Newnans Lake that it feeds into.
> (Doug, I'm sending you a copy of this to see what you think for timing of
> this outing).  JiM C.

I'm trying the outflow of Newnan's.

I set some traps off of HWY 20, I go flying by 2-3x a week on my bike ride.
Water is still very high right now, the SF has dropped about 2 ft in the
last week alone. I'll wait a few weeks till the levels drops below bank full
to set the traps. It's not such a good spot till the water comes down some

Tom Barr