In a message dated 1/16/02 3:56:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, Aquatic-Plants-Owner at actwin_com writes: << along with some trace minerals from a hydroponic outlet. (SNIP) Should I be doing something different for the Vals? >> Vals hate copper. Maybe that hydro trace has too much? Other than that, maybe just give them time. Come to think of it, when they go transparent it's usually a bad sign. Bob Olesen