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RE: Aquatic Plants Digest V4 #1476
- To: <Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com>
- Subject: RE: Aquatic Plants Digest V4 #1476
- From: "Gregory Gooden \(Annex\)" <ggooden at exc1_annex.com>
- Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:21:29 -0800
- thread-index: AcGHPhEKZa+MGEBnR4OiMEFM6NgKcgAIlmbg
- Thread-Topic: Aquatic Plants Digest V4 #1476
> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:25:39 EST
> From: D0NxD0N at aol_com
> Subject: Re: PH Problems?
> Gregory Gooden wrote:
> "One of my tanks is a 125 Gallon. It's been set up for over 6
> years now. Has
> 3.5 inches of "fine" natural gravel, not quite sand. It gets
> occassionally, but hasn't been changed in that 6 years. It
> currently has an
> Eheim "ThermoFilter" cannister, a Fluval 404 (with 15watt UV
> Sterilizer), a
> Magnum 350 (attached to the bio-wheels) and an EboJager 150watt..
> Hmmm... you didn't mention how much lighting you had previous
> to adding the 3
> watts/gallon. What was it? What was your fertilization
> routine? What type of
> plants do you keep? You weren't also doing any water changes
> during the 3.5
Actually, sorry I wasn't clear about that.. It used to have 4 40watt tubes (standard flourescents), but I REPLACED those with the new AH Supply stuff (making for an OLD wattage of 160 and a NEW wattage of 292).
> "For a long time, I've had pretty good success with it,
> including plants. But
> starting about 6 months ago, I started battling SERIOUS algae
> problems. At
> first, it was brush algae. So I added 3.0 watts per gallon
> (2x96 and 2x50) of
> Compact Flourescent (love those guys at AH Supply!) and added
> a CarboPlus to
> pump up some CO2 in there along with very minimal additions
> of TMG and Fe
> cause I'm inspired by ya'lls plant tanks! (this,
> coincidentally, is roughly
> the same time I found this list, so I found lots of great
> advice! Thanks!).
> Wait a minute... You ADDED 3 watts/gallon to your previous
> lighting setup? By
> doing this and only putting in minimal additions of TMG and
> Fe then you
> started feeding the algae. Am I right in that you weren't
> adding any sort of
> fertilizer to the tank before you added the lighting? What's
> the grand total
> of watts/gallon of lighting do you have over your tank now?
> You need to
> balance out your lighting, fertilizer and CO2 in order to
> kill off this algae
I used to add SOME fertilizer before the lites got replaced, but never in any great quantity (it always makes me nervous! Lol).
Grand Total Watts NOW: 292
> "So I took OUT the carbo plus and replaced with cannister CO2
> and a CO2
> injector. Pearling was immediate (and only on the algae! :(
> ). I halted ALL
> nutrient additions (TMG, Fe, Discus Trace, etc.). "
> ::Cringe:: You were providing the plants only lights and CO2
> and they were
> therefore inhibited by growing by the lack of fertilizer.
> They can't grow in
> this condition and therefore aren't able to battle algae. The
> addition of
> fertilizer/nutrients does not cause algae by itself. The
> imbalance between
> your lighting, fertilization and CO2 is what causes it.
Yeah, I'm beginning to see my stupidity there... ;>
> "GH: 4
> KH: 2
> PH: 6.4 (it's remained there for ages due to distilled water changes)
> NO3: 50 m/gl
> PO4: 2.4 (yeah, HIGH!)
> TEMP: 85f
> Notice how low your kH is. Did you know that the CarboPlus
> lowers kH? What's
I did NOT know that actually!
> m/gl? Isn't that supposed to be mg/l?
> If it is and that
> number for PO4 is in
> ppm or mg/l then BOTH your NO3 and PO4 are high. The plants
> can't take in any
> of those macro nutrients since they don't have any of the
> other nutrients. So
> the NO3 and PO4 are left for the algae to dine on. It's
> possible to have PO4
> in high quantities but NO3 has to be balanced w/ that. I
> think Tom Barr has
> done experiments w/ having high quantities of PO4 w/o causing
> algae problems.
> I think he came to the conclusion that adding PO4 above 2 ppm
> is useless. Tom
> B, care to chime in on this?
> "GH: 4
> KH: 3.5
> PH: 7.2 (!!!!!)
> NO3: 75 m/gl (increased?)
> PO4: .5
> TEMP: 85f
> These values aren't surprising. By increasing your kH you'll
> also increase
> your pH. By continuing to do RO changes you are continually
> taking out ANY of
> the much needed micronutrients that are needed by the plants
> to fight off the
> algae. Get your lights, fertlization and CO2 in order and
> you'll see your
> algae start to recede.
I'm gonna do just that!
> "So for some reason, a totally stable pH (stable for a long time) is
> suddenly HIGHER without buffers present AND with injected
> CO2... Algae
> thrives and plants do NOT (cept for the cabomba and jungle val!).
> Baking Soda is a buffer.
So if I need to raise KH, is that the right thing to use, or is there something better? (perhaps just occassional TAPWATER use for a water change?).
> "Now, HOPEFULLY someone will see something STUPID (I've been
> known to be just
> that.. Grin) that I'm doing (perhaps just making changes too
> fast??), but
> here's another clue..
> Yup, you made changes to too many things waaayyy too fast.
> Whoaaa... wait a
> minute. I just did some math on your lighting. You said "I
> added 3.0 watts
> per gallon (2x96 and 2x50) of Compact Flourescent" but for a
> 125 gallon tank
> that's only 2 x 96 + 2 x 50 = 292 watts and therefore only 2.336
> watts/gallon. Am I right in that you had 83 (?!) watts on
> your tank before
> you added this lighting to get a grand total of 3 watts/gallon.
Yeah, I blew it on expressing what was there.. Heh... Is 2.336 watts per gallon "okay"?
> In any case here is something you can try-
> Cut back on the lighting to just your power compacts. That
> should give you
> about 2.3 watts/gallon.
Okay, so it's there right now.. :)
> Keep your CO2 levels.
Kay... This is my first real experience with CO2, so I'm always afraid of overdoing it, but I did put it on a pH controller so it won't get outta hand.
> Start dosing your fertilizer again to the recommeded levels on their
> respected bottles.
Okay, I've got lots of different things to dose, and I don't wanna overdo it (but clearly I'm underdoing it right now)...
I suspect I should use EITHER TMG or Flourish, but either way dose the IRON and Potassium, no?
> STOP doing changes w/ RO water.
Ahh, so use tapwater instead to keep KH high (this will increase hardness & phospate too), right?
> PATIENCE is the key. It will take you weeks to get things
> back in order.
Cool. I'll mellow out on it and be slow and deliberate... (the crazy changes GOT me here!)
> By the way, I DO think that your algae is BGA. But to make
> sure take some of
> the filmy algae in your hand and SNIFF it. Does it smell like
> a swamp?? =D If
> it does then it's BGA. As you said, its a bacteria and not an
It's not a BAD odor (certainly not sulfery or unpleasant), but more like musty & crisp (maybe like fresh cut asparagus)..
> How long
> has it been since you did maintenance on your Eheim?
About 45 days.. It's full of efisubstrat ONLY. I generally mess with each filter every 60 days (but never at the same time). The Fluval404 gets clogged a lot tho, but I don't "change it out" when that happens.. I just rinse the pads.
> the archives and
> The Krib for ways to battle this cyanobacteria.
I will, and THANKS to everyone who responded!!
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