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Re: Amano grass

> N. Frank:
>> The plant that was offered at the AGA conference and which Amano gave me
>> when I visited him in Niigata __SHOULD NOT__ be called Hemianthus
>> micranthemoides. This plant has 2 leaves at each node which alternate in
>> direction. It also tends to grow in a more informal manner.
>> http://www.mindspring.com/~aquaristics/Micranthemum-sp-small.jpg
> Hey, Neil!  Isnt this the plant you used to sell for $20.00 - $24.00 for 10
> stems on Ebay!?  Heh! Heh!  Most impressive.... till I came along! >:-)

Gee, I got some from him for about 4$ at an auction several years back. I've
also given a ton of it away- as has Neil....I think he has given more to
this hobby than most anyone I know. Cheap shots will not win friends here or
with me. You seem find yourself important. Are you suggesting that folks
were paying all this $ for plants until YOU came along? Really......

> Now, what would you like us ALL to call it?  Perhaps we should call it
> Hemianthus Amanocus since Amano gave you your first sprigs of the plant?
> Or maybe we should call it Hemianthus Frankus because you brought it to
> America and sold it on ebay?  How about Hemianthus Frank-Amanos?:-) Or
> didn't Amano identify its species name for you on your trip?  Perhaps it
> doesn't have a formal species name 'eh?

There ya go. Taking it personal and attacking back with that same attitude.
Neil was not attacking you personally when he said what he said. He ain't
that way. Both by his intentions and actions.

> I think we'd all prefer to call it
> by its Genus-species name that is recognized by all Botanists world wide
> and not just by a handfull of obscure aquatic plant hobbyists which BTW Mr.
> Frank, we ALL are!

"Some" of us, not "all". We have a number of folks that lurk here or have
more talents than they let on.

> The problem is, I doubt their ARE true Genus and species names that the
> world BOTANICAL community recognizes for these plants.

Nope, there is. Neil was clear as possible as to the ID's. The concepts of
species is rather a prickly issue with plants even more so than animals.
Botanist get things wrong and reorganize things as well. Somethings never
get described or it take years to have it done or get around to it. Getting
up to date info is very challenging at best. Coming up with your own naming
-whatever you want, etc simply makes this a bigger, more confused problem.
Neil said this regarding sellers. Why contribute to the problem? I thought
Aponogeton was Java fern when I first got into this thing. Someone corrected
me thank goodness:) I didn't take it personally. You shouldn't either.

>> H. micranthemoides also has 3-4 leaves per node and it too is native to
>> America.  It's leaves are similar in size to the other Hemianthus species
>> (aka "pearl grass"). Umbrosum has larger leaves unless the plant is starved
>> of macronutrients.
> Therein lies a problem.  I purchased both these plants (H. micranthemoides
> &  H. umbrosum) and the only difference I noticed was evident only opon
> purchase...one plant appeared to have bigger leaves than the other. Both
> had 3-4 leaves per joint.

You don't have H. umbrosum then.
If you wish to see it I have it mixed with Ludwigia arcuata at:

That's the plant.

Perhaps it should say Hemianthus as well:). Up to date info is hard to send
out/find when folks use a resource as a bible or never know if something has
changed etc. Then one is saying it's X and then the other is saying no, no
it's now Y. That is a bigger issue. Even Botanist make mistakes on the names
and new literature. I admit is gets messy but that's the best we got for
now. The wheels of taxonomy can be very slow.

>...So far so good.  However, after growing them
> awhile in the same tank, they became indistinguishable from each other!  I
> concluded they were both the same plant that were simply grown under
> different conditions and did not merit different names at all.
I can say that are quite different as I have all three of these plants.
> Dwight:
>> Arbitrarily assiging species names to a plant is not good practice and,
>> unfortunately contributes to the confusion regarding the identity of
>> aquarium plants.
> There isnt a thing "arbitrary" about it!  Since we don't have clear
> scientific names to work with, I must rely on CLEAR, sustained visible
> differences.  You think there are three sp.  I do not.

There are 3 distinct plants here. Whether or not the 2 pearl grasses(not
umbrosum) are true species is another issue. They are morphologically
different. You can look and tell right away. H. umbrousum is quite secure in
being separate(for now:)).
Don't sell crypts is all I got to say:) They make this 3 ring circus look
exponentially worse by about 50 times. Even the locations of certain plants
are morphologically different of the same species often then the natural
hybrids and artificial ones too. It gets ugly.
>  Personally, I am
> willing to change and accept two names;  H. micrantemoides for the
> 2-leaf/node "Amano Pearlgrass" and H. umbrosum for the 4-leafed "babytears".

That's wrong. H. umbrosum is not even close to this. Neil's naming is fine.
>> This has been done by most sellers of aquatic plants over
> First off, you wish to impose common names for me to accept.  Dream on.

He's not imposing anything here. He's trying to get us to be aware and get
things right.

> You cough up Genus and species names recognized by Major Botanical
> Publications and recognized by the MAIN community of Botanists and not just
> a few hobby rags and THEN you can speak with authority.  Till then frankly
> Frank (no pun), I - aint - gots -  t'do - NUTTIN!! >:-)

I would consider Neil an authority and someone who tries his best to stomp
out myths and he does do his homework. I have extremely high respect for
him. If he is unsure he'll say so. He said he doesn't have the sp. name for
the Amano pearl grass. Someone might have described it by now. Maybe not.
But he is not leading anyone down a path of deception in anyway here.
He is simply trying to correct the info, not attack you personally.

Tom Barr