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Subject: CO2 system...

> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 18:15:17 -0800
> From: "Jeff Bodin" <bodin1 at gte_net>
> Subject: CO2 system...
> OK,
> So last night, I was a little over-reactive... (understandably so, having
> flush about $500 worth of fish). I also checked around/got feedback and

I'm so sorry you had to lose such incredible fish $500 is a lot of money.

> MY POINT: I cannot stress enough that ANY system sold into this trade
> be safe. The one I bought from a common source was not. I also received a
> few e-mails (off-line) from people who obtained the very same system who
> have had very similar experiences (expensive fish kills).
> I have been raising fish for 15 years, bred Discus and Angels for 5 of
> and am now in my "plant-phase". In that 20 years time, I have had other
> disasters (imagine loosing 12 tanks of breeding Discus because a
> system's bio crashed!) and I am sure that this experience wont be my last.
> Stupidity is one thing (in the case of the central system failure, another
> story for another time), unsafe products (to people OR fish) just plain
> should not be allowed. I'd rather be upset with myself for doing something
> stupid than to have the kind of thing that just happened happen. (By the
> way, cheap heaters that stick also come to mind and yes, been-there, done
> that one too...)
> How many people buy heating cables, and then six months later they and/or
> their fish get electrocuted? They don't (I should hope) because the system
> itself has two backups: one because the transformer is low voltage/low
> current and is internally fuse protected (C/UL approval ensures this); and
> two, because we are all smart enough to know that a tank should ALWAYS be
> powered through a GFI (right?).
> When I bought the system, the seller NEVER said, "Hey bubba, listen REAL
> REAL close. You need to monitor the gauge every other day. When the CO2
> starts to lose pressure, change it or the valve will 'explode' and all of
> your fish will die."  Had the seller said that, I would have looked for a
> different system that was safer and more reliable. IN FACT, the seller
> went as far as telling (bragging was more like it) me how safe the system
> was compared to other systems! The fact that I have received e-mails from
> others experiencing the same problem with this same set-up indicates to me
> that the seller never told these people this could happen either.

You have to understand that when you buy something, they are not there to
make you NOT buy their product, infact they may not even know anything else
but specifications and sometimes dont even have a clue what they mean
    It's like the issue with SUV's and roll overs, all the motor companys
are gonna say that they have a LOW roll over rate than any SUV (like FORD),
you never see those in advertisements and a sales person don't just menton
"There is a possiblity that this vehicle may roll over or have their tires
shredded ;)" I'm sure a lot of people like myself would rather drive another
vehicle with NO roll over :)
    So before I make any decisions about buying certain products I like to
ask people aka Toshi(IRC #aquaria on us.xnet.org) . I remember my first fish
tank where they had sold me 2 neons, a black moor and 3 zebra's in 5 gallons
of water. I had no idea that neons die so easily, so a week later I was
without any, and I had to remove Black Moor's because of excess ammonia so
all I was left with were 3 zebras (like anything ever kills those guys) The
biggest problem I have though is I go to the LFS and look at this fish and I
can't quickly come back and look them up so I'd have to take their word for
it, but I'm still pretty catious. Usually with purchases over $50 I do
definit research about it, I like getting the BEST at the BEST price ;)
> Since I am already out $500 in fish (and just bought additional PCs for
> $100+ and more plants for another $100) and already have $100+ in the CO2
How would a CO2 overdose kill plants? What's the difference in excessive co2
than excessive oxygen other than a huge pH swing, but even though aren't
they recoverable within a day? Can't you just completely replace the water?

> At this point, the tank is so far over its monthly budget that my wife is
> beyond comprehending my need to spend even more money to "get it right".
Sound's like what my Parents like to call micromanaging;) Even though i'm
only allowed to keep a 10 for fish, a 10 for toads, and a 5 for fry

- Matt