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Re:PO4's & RO/DI

> The idea behind water changes, is that you are replacing missing ions,
> and removing unwanted ones. But this is only true if the water you are
> replacign it with is good quality water. And I believe that BBA a red algae
> is due to high phosphates?

I have seen this comment written on the APD here several times and it is not
true. I had high PO4's for many years. No BBA. So is it the PO4's?

I think when we assign cause we must be careful. Often it is two or more
factors. BBA is tough because once established, it hangs on even after some
corrections are done. CO2 is a big cause for most folks algae issues. If you
have enough CO2 & light, the nutrients will be in deficient levels generally
if you have a low fish load and do the good maintenance. If CO2 becomes a
limiting factor, the roles of other nutrients can be blamed for algae. But I
believe it is a bit more complex than a simple one issue problem. If it was
not , I would have a lush BBA garden and many other species of algae.

>, only for large scale
> water treatment? right Wright? or who ever is a certified water treatment
> specialist?). This means that the resin will take out everything that is more
> postively or negatively charged first, and take less electronegatively (or
> postively?) charge last...

Yep, some companies tend to use a variety of recovery methods for the
metals. It makes good economic sense to recycle them as well as
environmental. Some use electrolsis. I even heard of a researcher using a
genetically altered plant to extract gold out of old gold mining waste and
got a profitable amount of gold absorbed into the plant for use. Thar's gold
in those plants:) That would be interesting to see how that develops. Now
that's using plants!

And guess what? that's right, our problem ions
> PO4, NO3. or most commonly problematic ions are the last ions to be picked
> for the Resin Ball team :-)

I thought plants like these (NPK) and all:) Mine do. Heck, I have a GH of 24
and still don't need RO/DI but my KH is still 6. I seem to have all this
water that is not supposed to grow plants well. High PO4 last time and a
semi high GH(9) and now I have no PO4 almost and GH of 24! No wonder the
Reef folks do so well here! Forget the Kalk, just add some tap! Plants seem
to just keep cooking along. Algae succession is the same and for the same
reasons it seems. The water quality is quite different though.

I think the notion that we NEED RO/DI due to anything other than hardness
and KH is generally misleading at best for plants.
 It seems that the Reef folks have somehow instilled this into the myth of
keeping plants. I'm don't know who started it all but in frustration many
folks have resorted to this. It takes lots of time, storage and money to do
this and I still haven't found any water yet that I haven't been able to a
simple water change with and not get algae. CO2 is generally the issue, not
the tap quality. I am not saying it is not out there... but I haven't seen
it yet. Perhaps needing to add something, like KH or GH etc to the water or
adding PO4's(Steve, Paul,Jamie, me and a whole bunch of other folks) will
cause algae if you do NOT add it.
> Anyone know of a good source for H+ Anion and OH- Cation exchange resins?
> Anyone done a DIY Ion exchange resin system? I'd be interested in hearing.
> All chemists, feel free to thrash my beguiled General understand of
> Chemistry, though I think I got the general idea down. Hope it helped, Best,
> Bill 

Perhaps folks need to go down this road to prove to themselves it is
generally not needed to grow plants without algae. I did this over 10 years
ago and had all kinds of grief. Remember it is a *balance of several
factors* not just one nutrient that is "higher than it should be- according
to some salt water guy down at the LFS". "You need an RO unit etc".
I've heard that one more than you know:) I keep bringing in the plants to
sell to them though:)
 My favorite story was a feller that went out and bought a real nice RO'/DI
set up and bought all the chemicals to make up for the water's now missing
components and still had problems. I visited him (He lived in Marin were the
water is perfect according to some) and he told me he thought CO2 was too
much $ and not worth it! He had too high PO4's and that's why he had algae
he told me(one of the nicest collections of algae I have seen). I checked
his pH and KH and he had a CO2 of 4ppm. I then told him I had the same water
yet I never had these problems AND I never added any RO/DI water to my tank.
Just 50% weekly water changes from the TAP:)
I do not have some secret "Tom Tonic" that I add to my tanks.
I am not saying that RO/DI do not have their place in planted tanks but it
is rare I would think that you need it and my water here according to many
sucks, yet no algae, RO/DI and good plant growth. I would've guessed I would
have needed it as well were I now live, but I don't. The GH is nuts. Good
old Karst. I have stalagmites and stalagtites growing on my shower heads.
Tom Barr